The only thing necessary for the persistence of evil is for enough good people to do nothing

Chrysi Avgi (Golden Dawn)

Today, I just wanted to do a recap on the “politicians” of the Chrysi Avgi (Golden Dawn) “party”. For those of you who don’t live here and have not been keeping up with events here in Greece (other than the financial crisis), we have another far bigger crisis that threatens, not only Greece but has implications for the rest of Europe. Chrysi Avgi (Golden Dawn) is an extremist far right “party” that entered parliament last year with 18 seats, after years of being considered a loony fringe group of neo-nazis.

 

golden dawn flag

They insist that their flag, which most people can see is a representation of the swastika,  is a Greek meander. Personally, I don’t care what they say it is based on or that it’s an ancient symbol or any other excuse they make for it… it reminds me of a swastika and I cannot look at it without cringing at the childish and pitiful “play” on this horrific symbol.

Make up your own mind.

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Now to the delightful bunch that make up their “party”. First, there’s their leader, Nikolaos Michaloliakos. He has been arrested  several times for assault and was imprisoned in January 1979 for illegally carrying guns and explosives. He was also dismissed from his position in the army. He has continually written about his admiration for notorious Nazis in his long-running “party” rag. One title being “Rudolf Hess the Immortal” and a 1987 article with the title “Hitler for 1000 years” where he supports Nazism and white supremacy.

We are the faithful soldiers of the National Socialist idea and nothing else” and “[…] WE EXIST, and continue the battle, the battle for the final victory of our race”. He ends the article by writing “1987, 42 years later, with our thought and soul given to the last great battle, with our thought and soul given to the black and red banners, with our thought and soul given to the memory of our great Leader, we raise our right hand up, we salute the Sun and with the courage, that is compelled by our military honour and our National Socialist duty we shout full of passion, faith to the future and our visions: HEIL HITLER!

When he was first elected to the Athens City Council, he entered the chamber with a nazi salute, much to the outrage of most normal stable people.

He denies the existence of the Nazi gas chambers and thinks that the Holocaust has been wildly exaggerated.

His “party” ran their campaign with the slogan “So we can rid this land of filth” referring to immigrants.

Enough said.

Make up your own mind.

Ilias Kasidiaris

Next up, the “party” spokesperson, Ilias Kasidiaris. He stood trial and was acquitted this year of an armed assault against a university professor in Athens in 2007. He is most well-known for the assault on Liana Kanelli on live television. Far from shocking people away from the party as I imagined it would, his party gained popularity and a Facebook page dedicated to him picked up thousands of “likes” within 24 hours.

He will face charges for this assault in the near future. No prizes for guessing the outcome. After all, Kanelli did swat him with a newspaper (he then had the audacity to announce that he would be suing her!) after he threw water at another female guest. I guess that’s just what young nazis do when they start losing the verbal argument.

Make up your own mind

zaroulia

Also on the payroll is Eleni Zaroulia, wife of the “party” leader. As you can see in the picture, she wears the iron cross ring and is quoted as saying that immigrants were sub-humans who invaded her homeland and spread diseases. Unbelievably, she has been allowed to sit on the Committee on Equality and Non-Discrimination of the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe despite protests from the other members of the committee.

Make up your own mind.

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How about this man as your representative in parliament ? He is Artemis Matthaiopoulos, the bass player of the band called Pogrom. Their best known song is called “Speak Greek or Die” and the song “Auschwitz” contains the “lyrics”

Fuck Wiesenthal. Fuck Anne Frank. Fuck the whole tribe of Abraham. The Star of David makes me vomit

Make up your own mind.

George Germenis

Or another “musician MP” George Germenis, the black metal rocker whose stage name is “Kaiadas” named after the chasm where Spartans reputedly hurled their “defective” babies. He was also filmed at the vendors market where Golden Dawn members were seen smashing the stalls of immigrants. He is also the guy who ordered journalists and reporters at a Chrysi Avgi (Golden Dawn) press conference to stand to attention to pay respect to his leader Nikolaos Mihaloliakos.

Make up your own mind.

Ilias Panagiotaros

Then there’s Ilias Panagiotaros. He is the owner of this shop selling Chrysi Avgi (Golden Dawn) knick knacks and military paraphernalia. Now, he is also an “MP”. He was one of the leaders of the mob that closed down the Terence McNally play, Corpus Christi. He was caught on film ranting in the most vile homophobic and racist way (you can see the video here. Warning: It’s vile)

He was also involved in the market attacks mentioned above and advocates landmines on the borders.

Make up your own mind.

christos pappas

Also involved in the theatre attack was another Golden Dawn deputy, Christos Pappas. He was the one who boarded a police vehicle to release 1 of the 4 arrested Chrysi Avgi (Golden Dawn) members.

He has surpassed even himself  in recent days after being caught on camera urinating on the door of the TV studio Mega. He and other members of Chrysi Avgi (Golden Dawn) were protesting that the channel showed Turkish serials on Independence Day.

An unsavoury gang of thugs and liars that I have only outlined here. There are many other instances of what they have said and done. They have a website in English which you can find from the Chrysi Avgi (Golden Dawn) Wikipedia page (of course, I’m not going to link it here).

Make up your own mind.

Before they make it up for you

Many thousands of people voted for Chrysi Avgi (Golden Dawn) without much analysis. They were told that the financial crisis was the fault of foreigners and they alone would get rid of them. They are doing a great job (in collusion with the police who voted massively for the “party”. Some say up to 50%) at scaring away further immigration and terrifying many thousands who are here into making plans to leave or at the very least staying at home. Fearing racist attacks, which have skyrocketed, immigrants are pretty much off the streets these days. The only time I see groups of immigrants now is at the tube station where they are rounded up in police sweeps that target brown skinned men, mainly of Pakistani or Bangladeshi background. Not that we dare say that it’s racial profiling!

I want those who did vote for this “party” to know that these “MPs” are not interested in you. They are not “proud Greeks” fighting to reclaim their country. Their country was never in danger. This is a lie that they have spread to get into power and once they do, expect much more of the same. Lies, violence and thuggery against ANYONE they dislike.

That includes “real” Greeks who are Jewish, Muslim, Atheist or anything other than Orthodox Christian.

Greek gays and lesbians.

Greeks with disabilities.

Mixed race Greeks or adopted Greeks of different ethnic backgrounds.

Greek couples in mixed marriages and their children.

Greek journalists and reporters.

Greek teachers who teach multiculturalism or tolerance.

Greek Anti-fascists, left wingers or in fact, anyone who is not supportive of Chrysi Avgi (Golden Dawn).

And it goes without saying… all foreigners of any colour and those who associate with them.

If you think I’m exaggerating, please do a little research. They’re quite transparent and open about their “ideas”. They have no real plans, policies or ability to run things as you can see from the behaviour I have pointed out here. Where would we be if every time there was a disagreement in parliament, someone got punched or urinated on.

If it wasn’t so deadly serious, they would be a joke. A “party” to be lampooned and laughed at at every opportunity as they were not so long ago when they used to gather in a pathetic little gaggle near the town centre but slightly hidden by trees, with their sad little banners and illiterate leaflets.

But it’s not a joke. I will continue to try and expose them for the thugs they are because I can. I have enormous sympathy for those who, unlike me, have nowhere else to go and will have no choice but to live with these dangerous idiots.

Make up your own minds.

NEVER AGAIN

 

29 Comments

  1. Kat
    March 28, 2013    

    Not an MP, but there was a hospital administrator who allowed Chrysi Avgi to check the papers of all foreign-looking nurses. Racism runs deeper than most are willing to admit. This was not brought on by the crisis. It has always been here.

  2. deviousdiva
    March 28, 2013    

    Yes, I agree with you Kat and I am deeply saddened by how willing people are to allow such violence and abuse to take place on their behalf.

  3. Christina G
    March 29, 2013    

    Diva you should try to understand why people voted for Golden Dawn:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udA8Z_bPb3s

    Why I voted Golden Dawn (english subs)

    Calling people evil etc. is not going to win them to your side.

    Firstly, the Meander is not a nazi symbol it is an ancient greek symbol.

    technically they do not call for violence against immigrants. that is done by individuals who sympathize with their belief they should leave. which I do not agree with.

    Regardless of the way the GD presents itself or their true goals.

    You have to ask yourself why people are voting for them. Its not ignorance.

    Many people interviewed have even said while they too think they are extreme and do not endorse random violence… they are fed up. they are fed up with not being able to walk around their neighborhoods in safety as they once were able to do so.

    While I think the way they market themselves and the extremes they take on so many issues they are Nonetheless they are right about many things.

    ** beyond all my points, they are right about Greece having to say no to the austerity measures.

    1) many Greeks have been raped, murdered, robbed and killed and you do not cry over them diva nor do most leftist.

    2) Greece simply can not absorb all these immigrants for many reasons.
    really there are only two reason to migrate political reasons and economic

    the economic migrants.. which are most of them must go there is not economy to absorb them
    they were not formally invited.

    the poltiical asylum seekers that are truly refugees need to find shelter in the FIRST safe country which would be Turkey or IRAN for many of these people

    truly most of them do not even really want to come to Greece, they want to go to the richer EU countries and still do not understand this Dublin 2 article really precludes them from getting asylum anyway.

    But then again if you are seeking safety from war or whatever, why not go to the first safe country. not the first richest country you can sneek into?

    3) And why is Holocaust revision or inquiry such an evil? any other historical topic can be examined or debated…however the ADL of Bnai Brith ( a prominent Jewish political organization) and other Jewish organizations.. felt perfectly fine for years to assist on lobbying on behalf of Turkey in preventing the US Congress from recognizing the Armenian Genocide (for poltiical reasons, Turkeys relations with Israel) and have also asked Ukranian groups to NOT try to make the Holomidor (genocide by startvation) at the hands of communists as something to be compared to Jewish suffering during world war 2 (this is actually on tap made by an Israeli film maker in a movie i believe called Defamation).. ALSO all these Jewish group that denounce Golden Dawn, SHOULD FIRST DENOUNCE ISRAEL and the SHAS party…

    Israel very recently but without as much publicity has summarily deported thousands of black african muslim refugees/migrants!

    Is it necessary to talk about how non-Jews are treated in israel.
    google Christians want Jews to stop spitting on them Jerusalem.

    Golden Dawn and Extremist nationalist are light weight when comparing them to a particular group that fears and hates them. That group REFUSES to denounce injustices, attitudes, philosophies, religious ideas within their own community , policies within their own beloved “motherland”, that MIRROR exactly the same nasty attitudes to outsiders they cry about from the Golden dawn.

    While I realize you are not a member of that group Diva, I think you are not taking a bigger picture here.

    Golden Dawn flourishes only because the so-called mainstream parties FAILED to provide any leadership on any issues.

    And while we can denounce the MEANS by which they do things, the END result that the voters voting for them are seeing is : 1) someone is trying to and is in some ways succeeding in making my neighborhood safer for me. 2) someone is trying to feed us and promote us not just random humanity that has come through selling drugs, stealing, etc.

    So if there is an alternative means or party who are they?

  4. Guest (xenos)
    March 29, 2013    

    Absolute racist crap. To answer your points:

    (1) Far more immigrants have been murdered, raped and tortured by Greeks than the other way around. Given that immigrants are about 10% of the population, this would suggest that Greeks a rather racist.

    (2) You clearly know nothing of international law. The first country that these immigrants arriving at the border with Greece can apply for asylum is Greece. The other countries do not accept asylum applications. AS far as financing is concerned, the EU is paying for everything. Greeks do nothing to help immigrants, and never did. (I exclude from comments several Greek NGOS and the international agencies working here)

    (3) If serious historians want to do research on the Holocaust, they are allowed to. What is illegal uinder European law if for ignorant fascists to start tryng to rewrite history because they are evil pieces of excement. Can you tell the difference between questioning an account of history and being a piece of shit?

    Judging from your comments, you are a Nazi-sympathiser. We do not want to hear specious nonsense about the XA symbol being from 2000 years ago: the Nazis claimed that theirs was from India. Such people are just very very nasty sub-humans who lie, cheat and murder (yes, Golden Dawn are murdering Asian immigrants) and you are an apologist for evil.

    Try going to Church and seeking guidence from your religion. Christ did not condone the evil that you are describing. Try reading the Bible. Try educating yourself about reality,

  5. deviousdiva
    March 29, 2013    

    @Christina G

    Diva you should try to understand why people voted for Golden Dawn. Calling people evil etc. is not going to win them to your side.

    I understand completely why people voted for this heinous party and I do not call people “evil” for doing so. What I do say though is that they are wrong to vote for extremism for any reason. While previous governments were in power and taking tens of millions of euros for immigration related schemes and administrations and doing NOTHING (as I have been reporting since this blog began seven years ago) people were fine. They didn’t care. No-one was interested in what was going on. No-one objected to the millions of euros that “disappeared’. That money was intended for immigration purposes. That is a proper asylum system, proper reception centres (NOT prisons), legal aid, medical expenses, food, clothing etc etc. This money was STOLEN by Greece while it did NOTHING.

    Firstly, the Meander is not a nazi symbol it is an ancient greek symbol.

    Golden Dawn can say what they like about their flag now. Back when they were a loony fringe group, they were proud of their Nazi symbolism. Why are they so shy about it now? I’ll tell you why…they want power and they knew they couldn’t get it if they were “out” as Nazis. So they put on suits and pretend that their flag has nothing to do with the swastika. The National Front in the UK did the same thing. It’s not a new tactic.

    I CANNOT get my head around the fact that apologists are shouting about the flag not being based on a swastika. It clearly is. A child can see it. They cannot undo their past. They can only dupe people who know no better.
    And, if they are so keen not to be considered Nazis (which most people know they), why not change the damn flag? Most people are sickened at the sight of it. It’s offensive, disrespectful, childish in the extreme and making up nonsense about it is worse than pathetic.

    technically they do not call for violence against immigrants. that is done by individuals who sympathize with their belief they should leave. which I do not agree with.

    If we’re seriously are making these kind of excuses for them, can we then say that “technically” the people they have stabbed don’t feel pain. Those who were murdered, aren’t “technically” dead? Can you be seriously arguing this point?

    Golden Dawn has demonised immigrants, calling them sub-human, filth and invaders. And then they have the AUDACITY to say, “well, we didn’t “technically” tell people to attack them and beat them and abuse them and kill them” No, we are innocent.
    For crying out loud, some of them want LANDMINES on the border! To kill and maim other human beings!

    Regardless of the way the GD presents itself or their true goals.You have to ask yourself why people are voting for them. Its not ignorance.

    Yes, I ask myself EVERY DAY. EVERY DAY that I see these thugs. EVERY DAY that I see what their supporters write and say on the Internet. EVERY DAY that I see scared people being rounded up at the tube station in police sweeps. EVERY DAY that I read about another attack. EVERY DAY that I read another excuse. EVERY DAY that I don’t see action taken against this avalanche of abuse, hatred and violence against us.
    If it’s not ignorance then it’s worse. It is being done with full knowledge and Greeks don’t care. Is that better?

    Many people interviewed have even said while they too think they are extreme and do not endorse random violence… they are fed up. they are fed up with not being able to walk around their neighborhoods in safety as they once were able to do so.

    Yeah, and EVERYONE suddenly seems to have an elderly mother who was attacked by immigrants on their way to the ATM. Don’t you SEE? This is their propaganda and lies. There are genuine problems in those areas where Golden Dawn gained so much ground. Overcrowding, neglect, degradation of the area and poverty are to blame. Not immigrants. It is no accident that Golden Dawn doesn’t do well in affluent areas. No, their breeding grounds are poor inner city areas with all the problems that come with poor inner city areas. Athens is not unique. We see these same problems in inner city areas all over Europe and we see these lunatic Nazis in high numbers, infecting the disillusioned population, whipping up hatred and blame and then we sit back and watch it explode.

    While I think the way they market themselves and the extremes they take on so many issues they are Nonetheless they are right about many things.
    beyond all my points, they are right about Greece having to say no to the austerity measures.

    Well, I know five year olds who are very right about some things but no one in their right mind would VOTE for them. Five year olds can be charming and witty and right. They can also be given to tantrums, pinching and biting people who won’t let them play, spitting their food on the floor and talking absolute nonsense. Let’s not vote for five year olds.

    And I’m confused: since when did just saying “No” to something mean they should be voted for? They offered no alternative because they have none; apart from getting rid of foreigners to magically bring utopia back to Greece. Sounds like a five year old to me.

    many Greeks have been raped, murdered, robbed and killed and you do not cry over them diva nor do most leftist.

    I am deeply saddened by ALL murders and rapes. They are thankfully still quite rare in Greece. There was ONE high profile murder that was used by Golden Dawn to blame ALL immigrants. I have read some of the lies that were spread about that too. It was a horrible and tragic crime and the perpetrators were caught and are in prison thankfully. This CANNOT mean that we are all to blame? There was one horrible high profile rape case, where again, the perpetrator was caught and imprisoned. Are we ALL to blame for this one man’s hideous crime? No. In the same way that Greeks are not blamed en masse for the multiple rapes on tourists that was perpetrated by one man who, incidentally, is still free.
    Yes, a few immigrants have committed serious crimes but to taint all of us with their crimes is racist and dangerous.

    Greece simply can not absorb all these immigrants for many reasons.

    I agree with you but where were you when the few organisations were crying out for help? Where were you when your government was stealing money given by the European Union to deal with immigration? Where were you when the few people were campaigning for a proper asylum and refugee process? Where were you when the state turned a blind eye on immigration because cheap labour and money from EU funds suited them?

    the economic migrants.. which are most of them must go there is not economy to absorb them
    they were not formally invited.

    Many, many economic migrants were invited. The farmers and growers asked every year for cheap labour. I am not sure who will pick the fruit and vegetables in the coming years if Golden Dawn have their way. I can’t imagine that all the unemployed people will go off to the countryside, live in cowshed with 5 other people and pick strawberries for a few euros a day? There are also many highly skilled foreigners here too. Doctors, scientists, professors etc. Perhaps it’s a little shortsighted to be getting rid of them all considering that Greek people are leaving the country in droves?

    the poltiical asylum seekers that are truly refugees need to find shelter in the FIRST safe country which would be Turkey or IRAN for many of these people

    So you consider Iran and Turkey “safe” countries for immigrants? Obviously, if these countries were safe, they would stay. They are not. People do not leave their homeland easily. Perhaps never to be able to return. It is not undertaken on a whim. People are seeking safety from war and persecution and head to the nearest SAFE country which is obviously NOT Turkey or Iran.

    truly most of them do not even really want to come to Greece, they want to go to the richer EU countries and still do not understand this Dublin 2 article really precludes them from getting asylum anyway.

    On this you are right. Most do not specifically want to come to Greece. They want to come to Europe where they will (hopefully) be safe, be able to find work and to enjoy the lifestyle that we take for granted. It is also VERY arrogant to say that they don’t understand the Dublin 2 article. Most people in EUROPE have never heard of it, let alone a guy from Pakistan or a family running away from Syria. Why should they know?

    But then again if you are seeking safety from war or whatever, why not go to the first safe country. not the first richest country you can sneek into?

    Again with the “safe” country. They want to make it to Europe. Not specifically Greece, Europe. Because they believe life will be better here. They do not realise that they will be trapped here in Greece. They cannot get papers, they cannot travel, they cannot leave, they are trapped here. Why didn’t Greece bring about a change to the Dublin 2 agreement? Because they didn’t care when everything was going well and they enjoyed the fruits of stolen money and cheap labour.

    3) And why is Holocaust revision or inquiry such an evil? any other historical topic can be examined or debated…

    Inquiry and study is not evil. No one said it was. Revision? How can you “revise” something that is so well documented and recorded that it is now a CRIME to deny it? The holocaust was horrific and an almost unimaginable horror and we (ordinary everyday people) have collectively said “NEVER AGAIN” We cannot allow people like Golden Dawn to “revise” (I would say “lie about”) history.

    Is it necessary to talk about how non-Jews are treated in israel.
    google Christians want Jews to stop spitting on them Jerusalem.

    Another typical argument from Nazi apologists. “We’ll stop when they stop”. Like I said… five year olds.

    Golden Dawn and Extremist nationalist are light weight when comparing them to a particular group that fears and hates them. That group REFUSES to denounce injustices, attitudes, philosophies, religious ideas within their own community , policies within their own beloved “motherland”, that MIRROR exactly the same nasty attitudes to outsiders they cry about from the Golden dawn.

    I assume you are talking about Communists? I abhor ALL extremists, regardless of their party or religion. ANY group that advocates violence against another group or other human beings in general is abhorrent and insupportable. BUT excusing one group of extremists because there’s another group of extremists is ridiculous and pointless. What reasonable adults do is take the higher road not stamp their feet and say “well, they’re worse than we are”

    While I realize you are not a member of that group Diva, I think you are not taking a bigger picture here.

    No, I’m not a member of any political or religious group. And the bigger picture from whose point of view?

    Golden Dawn flourishes only because the so-called mainstream parties FAILED to provide any leadership on any issues.

    Yes, again you’re right about part of that statement. Mainstream parties have not only failed the Greek people, they stole and cheated and lied. But let’s face it, Greek people voted for the two families time and time again. Many, many also did very well out of the situation.
    You can’t turn round after the party and blame people who weren’t even there for it turning bad.

    And while we can denounce the MEANS by which they do things, the END result that the voters voting for them are seeing is : 1) someone is trying to and is in some ways succeeding in making my neighborhood safer for me. 2) someone is trying to feed us and promote us not just random humanity that has come through selling drugs, stealing, etc.

    You do know HOW they are succeeding don’t you? You do know that just saying you don’t agree with the methods is not enough. If you voted for them, you are colluding with them. You gave them the legitimacy to escalate the violence that they advocated all along. You do realise that the people they have stabbed and beaten are fellow human beings whose lives have been destroyed? And you continuing to make excuses for them is allowing them to commit these horrendous racist crimes in YOUR name.

    So if there is an alternative means or party who are they?

    Alternatives means? What other than stabbing and killing immigrants? Well, I imagine I could come up with a few. Stop stealing money meant for immigration issues. Stop being corrupt. Do something long sighted rather than think of lining your pockets today. See people as human beings. Stop supporting the corrupt systems because it suits you. I laid out my plans for immigration in Greece on another post a while back. I’m not going to repeat myself here. (I might look it up tomorrow and post)
    Alternative parties? Yes, there are lots depending on your persuasion. None of them present solutions to ALL the issues and NONE of them are capable of solving ALL problems. That does not mean we should vote for Nazis. Personally, I would rather die than do that.

    I don’t expect you would have read this entire comment and have probably skimmed through it to the end but I wrote it as much for myself as for you.

  6. Christina G
    March 30, 2013    

    I read it all. but I think you still are not getting the point.

    I pasted a clip from a youtube that gives you an explanation from one of their supporters.
    If no other party or group provide help to ordinary people then Golden Dawn will grow.

    So in effect Diva before you and your guest start lambasting me to hell.. Perhaps you would have the wisdom to see that maybe I am suggesting you and others STOP and really consider what is causing people to vote for Golden Dawn (since its your stated wish that people stop doing so) Perhaps if people on the so-called Left or some of these immigrant leaders like Javed Islam did something more than sound bites only defending Pakistanis and were equally vigilant or protesting attacks on Greeks perhaps some people might feel there is a voice some where else that is concerned with their poverty, problems, security.

    Why was not Javed Islam the head of the Pakistani community NOT the first one to denounce the atrocious crime by one his compatriots against that Greek Girl in Paros??

    Many GREEKS in fact did denounce the murder of the Pakistani you reference.

    MOST people did not benefit from the government corruption. that s just an impossibility.
    Many people benefited from excessive bureaucracy via the creation of state jobs. BUT most people did not benefit the way the criminal politicians and higher up Bureaucrats did who actually STOLE millions of Euros. and Greek politiicians are not unique in this either. anywhere power is centralized there is corruption.

    And Diva its not all of the sudden everybody has a Grandmother that was robbed at the ATM.
    And no one is under the illusion that immigrants legal or not are the cause of all Greeces problems they of course are not, But SOME of them are the cause of SOME of the problems on the Street level.

    besides that heinous rape murder combo in Paros island there was the murder of that Greek Father for his camera by two afghanis and many many other things.

    Point is Greece can not absorb all these immigrants ( I did not say 0 immgrants ) I said all of them MOST were not invited. True some where. and for instance there were some Egyptians working at a fishery who were beat up by some thugs who may or may not have had anything to do with Golden Dawn… I too am appauled by that

    Greece really should leave the Euro and Eu and really this project failed. THE EU is a centralized non – democratic anti human insititution that seeks to enslave Europe to the banking cartels.

    Do you really think the other EU members were NOT aware of the effect the Dublin2 provision would cause?

    About the Meandros you can argue all you like but it is a GReek symbol, the Golden dawn is merely using it. Hate the Golden Dawn all you want, fine, but the Meandros is in Fact an ancient Greek symbol. look it up. by your argument a Star of David can be said to look like a swastika

    I stick to my words about the holocaust (meaning there should be open inquiry to the stated methods and numbers stated), why? you say it s all documented. really. well then why not simply let the so-called holocaust revisionist say what they want to say freely and then refute them with the facts?

    i.e. for instance on revisionist points out that it is impossible to have burned or gassed 11 million people as is claimed because the amount of fuel to do so was not available. In any case, did you know that they use to say peoples fat was used to make SOAP and SKIN was used for lampshades and now the Holocaust museums and all reputable (state approved) holocaust scholars now admit this was a lie. So what else is false?

    Ok lets look at it another way.. then anyway why is it that this one event can not be examined but when it comes to other peoples tragedies they do not count.??

    really if you had a choice to be gassed and die quickly or slowly starve in the Syrian desert which would you choose which is worse?

    Germany has paid billions to jews and israel, not much to Greece or Greeks for her crimes against Greece.

    While Turkey an ally of Germany, EU, UK, USA etc. gets away with denying and not compensating millions of Armenians and others.why… because this all is being used for political interests.

    Politicians love factions and the best way to get in power is to have the population broken up….i.e. we must flood Europe with migrants from around the world breaking up the native majorities and have multiple competing peoples who we can control easier and opposing that is “nazi” and there will be another holocaust if you do so ( so to prevent a holocaust we need to genocide native Europeans by flooding them out of existence ).

    and to guest xenos:

    (1) Far more immigrants have been murdered, raped and tortured by Greeks than the other way around. Given that immigrants are about 10% of the population, this would suggest that Greeks a rather racist.

    *Really where is your proof?

    (2) You clearly know nothing of international law. The first country that these immigrants arriving at the border with Greece can apply for asylum is Greece. The other countries do not accept asylum applications.

    Why CANT they apply for asylum in IRAN or Turkey?
    Why wont they accept asylum applications and ONLY European countries have to accept them??
    Are they also NOT signators to International Agreements. No well then those were stupid agreements. And anyway i may not be an expert but I have heard it the other way.. the rule is the first SAFE country Not the first European country (meaning no bombs falling down, or you are out of the jurisdiction of the persecuting government ).

    ARE EUROPEAN countries ONLY the ones who signed international agreements saying they would accept ASYLUM seekers and Migrants. NO other country has.i find it hard to believe.

    if so why? and in any case is there not a LIMIT?

    Since you are a self proclaimed international law legal expert what happens theoretically if 200,000,000 all want to come to Europe, based on international Law we have to let them into Greece or Europe?

    Re: Turkey and Iran
    Both countries are largely Muslim and relatively prosperous granted not like Germany and UK. If Greece did sign something saying it will accept UNLimited asylum seekers well then that was a mistake because Greece clearly can not accept them.

    And any contract requires that the parties be able to preform in order for it to be legally binding. So what did Greece and the rest of EU get for multiculturalizing their nations?

    Interesting Diva mentions the GD as a threat to Gays and Lesbians.

    Diva who is beating up Gays in London and Amsterdam (disproportionately) right wingers?
    or another group? the politically INcorrect answer but TRUE answer is Islamic immigrants

    3) If serious historians want to do research on the Holocaust, they are allowed to. What is illegal uinder European law if for ignorant fascists to start tryng to rewrite history because they are evil pieces of excement. Can you tell the difference between questioning an account of history and being a piece of shit?

    Calling people names is admitting you lost the argument.

    (actually its not European Law its just a law in many countries thankfully not all countries have caved into the demands of the hyper hypocritical Zionist organization…… the hypocritical genociders of Palestinians, and colluders in denying the genocide of the Armenians by Turkey and denying the value of others by minimizing their suffering…)

    CAN YOu tell the difference between being a piece of shit and rewriting history?

    CAN YOU explain how Shity and evil it is for one group to dominate international sympathy or demand that their one group be afforded specially victim status? while simultaneously Colluding with perpetrators of other similar criminal acts for poltiical reasons???

    i.e. lets just say for the sake of argument the holocaust happened exactly as they say…

    A) WELL ALL THE MORE YOU WOULD EXPECT THAT COMMUNITY TO NOT BE SIDING WITH TURKEY against the Armenians!!!!

    B ) and asking UKRANIANS to deny the Holimodr or asking them to NOT compare it with Jewish suffering.

    C) And must I go on about Israel here, or are we educated enough to realize the hypocrisy of ethnically cleansing natives, demanding your own state be majority your type of people then going around crying about oh no the extremism in Europe God forbid European nations want the same thing we want in Israel … that is to keep themselves a majority in their own countries…because there might be a repeat of another Holocaust… (come again..is not the whole point of Israel to be a safe place for Jews…then why do they need Europe to be a safe place as well by drowning out the natives? oh thats right they are hypocrites…)

    GROSS SHITTY Hebraic HYPOCRISY. ALL THE MORE sickening if even 10% of the Holocaust story as officially demanded to be believed is true.

    Because then they should be ALL the more least likely to do what they are doing to Palestinians, least likely to be involved in colluding with Turkey in denying the genocide of the Armenians.. and all the other points.

    and being so sensitive to suffering should be the ones who should be the most against Austerity measures and the most for cancelling debts owed by Greece and other countries including the African and other third world countries that the IMF is raping, they should be the first demanding America stop bombing the middle east and environs to hell..and the LAST to be hosting a poltical party like SHAS whose saged rabbi says Gentiles are animals put on earth to serve Jews. while simultaneously demanding GD be banned.

    SO ALL THE MORE …IF IT HAPPENED THE WAY THEY SAY IT HAPPENED ALL THE MORE….ALL THE MORE THEY ARE THE ONES WHO ARE HYPOCRITICAL ON NATIONALIST ISSUES. AND HYPOCRITICAL ON ALL KINDS OF INTERNATIONAL POLICIES. and are the shitty ones and the fascists and the genociders and the NEO_NAzis

    You also know very little about the Bible and my religion.

    You see I worship Zeus and he choose the sacred Hellenic people loves us amongst all other people and if any people do not do as we say he will smite them.
    (remind you of anyone, change the tribal group and the deity )

    the Old testament is Nazism primitive style.

    Cause if we go by the Old Testament we should surely be voting for worse than Golden Dawn…all the groups Diva mentioned previously as being in trouble if Golden Dawn wins would be stoned, chased away, or forcibly converted so lets not go there.

    I believe in survival and mutual respect. If people respect me I respect them. If you come into my country illegally then you are disrespecting me. If you want to make me a minority in my country you are trying to genocide my people!.
    If you hate Greeks as a people group then OF COURSE I hate you.

    if you go by the bible also you can say that its wrong to bomb random people since you are a UK heritage person perhaps you should lobby your own kind on that one dear heart.

    its wrong to eat shrimp (it dos have high cholesterol so they may have a point on that one)

    its wrong to CHARGE INTEREST TO YOUR FELLOW. THAT one i do 100% agree with the private control of money issuance and the interest involved is the cause of much suffering not Just in Greece but in the Philippines, Africa, Latin America etc.

    In short I am NOT against the Golden Dawns desire that Greece keep its native population as a super majority in Greece do I think they go to far Yes.

    But the situation is also to far gone and all our so-called European allies care for is making sure that their loan shark banks are paid the last pound of flesh they do not really care about the human rights abuses against immigrants or anyone else. If they did then THEY would call for cancelling the Dublin 2 provisions.

    Also the immigration problem always festering in the background BECAME much worse exactly cause of two things

    1) more hordes of people trying to come
    2) the economic crisis straying the few charities and other social services that were available.

  7. Christina G
    March 30, 2013    

    xenos:

    http://www.theforeignreport.com/2013/03/28/turkey-establishing-a-new-asylum-system/#.UVauMZNwq58

    TURKEY is also a signor
    see you are a liar.

    “Although Turkey has been a signatory party to the 1951 Geneva Convention relating to the Status of Refugees from the beginning, it applies the Refugee Convention in a strict way. It is one of the few signatories that still maintains geographical limitation.”

  8. deviousdiva
    March 30, 2013    

    I cannot respond or discuss these issues with someone who basically says “We aren’t as bad as (insert favorite group or country) so therefore we are justified”. It’s a childish and nonsensical argument that only serves to excuse the actions of your favoured person/group/country.

  9. Christina G
    March 30, 2013    

    Diva look who is complaining about the Golden Dawn. There is a logical connection in me bringing up that other group. One can not be practicing “Golden Dawnism” for their own people while condemning it in another.

    You are not part that group. so fine but nonetheless my other point still stands :

    People are voting for the Golden Dawn for a reason.

    Find out what those reasons are and then work to address those reasons.

    If you just think and act as if all of the sudden all these people became ‘ haters ‘ you are missing the point.

    there is a reason I pasted that video clip. did you view it?

    Basically the woman is saying look I have had my store robbed several times (by immigrants) and I got sick of it and the GD has helped make my neighborhood a bit safer and NO other party or orgnaization has helped me. so thats why I voted for GD although before these things started happening I never thought I would vote for an extreme group like that.

    Even a Greek Jewess in an article being interviewed a few months ago mentioned she even understands why people are going to them. (and no it s not because she thinks non-jewish Greeks are evil). she understands and knows that the situation on the Street level is out of hand.

    Do you or your guest live in any of those neighborhoods affected?

    If I find the article I will post it here if you do not believe me.

    I do agree they are too extreme. I do not want a war with our neighboring countries and i think their agenda is too extreme over all. BUT nonetheless they are doing some humanitarian work towards Greeks who are suffering and I appeciate that.

    I wish that a more balanced party existed that did the same but maybe was not into some of the other things they believe. but there is no other one.

  10. March 30, 2013    

    Yes, I did see the video and I work in that exact area that she is talking about. Do you?

    People are voting for the Golden Dawn for a reason.

    Find out what those reasons are and then work to address those reasons.

    If you just think and act as if all of the sudden all these people became ‘ haters ‘ you are missing the point.

    It is rather condescending to suggest that I don’t understand what’s going on. Believe me, I do. Better than most. That doesn’t mean I can’t call people out for being gullible, ignorant or just plain racist for voting for that vile “party”. They have swallowed the lies they have been fed.

    Have a read of this: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/return-of-the-far-right-greeces-financial-crisis-has-led-to-a-rise-in-violent-attacks-on-refugees-8551798.html

    Perhaps you need to read something other than the propaganda being fed to you by Golden Dawn.

    do agree they are too extreme. I do not want a war with our neighboring countries and i think their agenda is too extreme over all. BUT nonetheless they are doing some humanitarian work towards Greeks who are suffering and I appeciate that

    They are doing a few VERY deliberate high profile acts of charity for Greeks only. This is NOT humanitarian work. Humanitarian work is being done by the individuals and organisations who have been feeding and treating the poor, homeless and disadvantaged for decades and are still doing it.

    There is little evidence that they have done anything at all other than the provocative “food drive” in Syntagma (illegally and provocatively by the way), where they publicly checked people’s papers and videoed it for people to see how they are “helping” their own people. They also videoed themselves walking some elderly women to the atm. The Greeks Only blood bank that they promised doesn’t exist and was derided by the medical unions and there is no evidence of the network of Golden Dawn doctors.

    You are deluded if you think Golden Dawn can help you. Help you with what? To get a job? To provide an education that is respected around the world? To help the environment?

    A few high profile propaganda videos doesn’t cut it with me. I’m just not that gullible.

    As for a party that can really help people…. there isn’t one. And there probably never will be. That’s the nature of politics. We know this from history and experience. What we have to do is choose the party least likely to kill us, other human beings and the planet.

  11. Guest (xenos)
    March 30, 2013    

    Turkey is not a signatory to the Bellagio protocol and does not accept asylum applications exceptfrom Europeans. You are the liar and also an idiot.

    The reason that Greeka are voting for Chryssi Avgi is that they are short of money and want to blame somone else for it — that is, Pakistanis and others who are not greeks. They even want white Europeans to get out fo Greece. This is the mentality of stupid, ignorants and rather nasty people. Some kids are being tricked into supporting the Nazi movement, and I feel sorry for them. But anyone over 30 who supports them is a piece of evil shit

    Today I read that the Greek Nazis want the Death Penalty for immgrants who commit crimes. Let me suggest a better idea: THE DEATH PENALTY FOR ALL NAZIS. You don’t need to commit any more crimes, since history is clear on it. Just supporting the Nazi movement should be enough to lose your right to life. That is because you do not deserve to have the benefits given to you by your parents, grandparents and others who fought the Nazis 70 years ago. People died fighting for freedom, and you pieces of shit want to return to the Holocaust period.

    God help us.

  12. Guest (xenos)
    March 30, 2013    

    And yes, I live in central Athens. Even before the crisis, I knew how racist Greeks are. I am white, and people think I am Greek. So I don’t have any problems superficially. Being late with kinoxtrista, then the fascist Greeks say “if you cannot pay, perhaps you should leave Greece”. This is pure racism, and Greeks think it is quite normal and acceptbale.

    You people need to learn about the real world, instead of this ignorant fantasy that is taught in Greek schools and shown on Greek tv. This is also where the support for XA comes from — that greeks know fuck all and always try to blame others for their problems. Conspiracy theories abound, but it is never any individual’s fault. It’s always someone else: today is the turn of the foreigners to take the blame for Greek stupidity in electing two malakes as prime ministers (Papandreou and now Samaras( and wondering why Greece is fucked. Morons: its fucked up because you put rich assholes in charge of your country. Try using your brains.

  13. Guest (xenos)
    March 30, 2013    

    You are too polite, DD. These people will not listen to reason.

  14. deviousdiva
    March 31, 2013    

    @Guest (xenos)

    Possibly too polite, yes. But rudeness is met only with rudeness and more insults. I am, perhaps, too optimistic too. My hope is that I can reach even one person who doesn’t know about some of these issues and that they will think about them a little more deeply. That’s just who I am. I don’t expect everyone to be like me. This is my choice of engagement but I think it is more effective than insults and derogatory comments.

    I am also angry like you. My anger about this whole Golden Dawn thing is what drives me to write here again and again. It was my anger about their “Hate Fest” (they named it that) back in 2006 that really got this blog going. It is my anger that keeps this going even when no-one is commenting or perhaps not even reading.

    But I will not allow my anger to blind and deafen me because then I become as bad as them. It’s anger makes them hate. Makes them unable to see other people as human beings. Makes them hateful and disturbed.

    So yes, probably too polite. I certainly don’t write down everything that’s in my head. I edit my thoughts and I think very carefully about how people can even “hear” what I write. That’s the only way I have found to communicate my feelings, especially about Golden Dawn, to people who read this blog.

  15. Christina G
    March 31, 2013    

    The reason that Greeka are voting for Chryssi Avgi is that they are short of money and want to blame somone else for it — that is, Pakistanis and others who are not greeks. They even want white Europeans to get out fo Greece. This is the mentality of stupid, ignorants and rather nasty people.

    >>>Sir the reason people are voting for Golden Dawn is not what you say? it is because of fear of violence by illegal transient people and the fact that there are in fact too many immigrants here and because they want to get us out of the troikas system of never ending austerity they are the only anti-austerity party.

    You so-called anti-fascist think by threatening peoples lives you are going to win me to your side. If anything u prove one thing to you our choice is golden dawn or be swept away by a flood of never ending refugees who by the way really want to go to your mother land england.

    I support Greece pulling out of any agreements it signed in the past to agree to take on Asylum seekers as we simply can not do it, and especially if its open ended with no limits that can be placed.

    You want to take my life, thats a typical of totalitarians who want to impose their agendas.
    I simply do not want people take mine, my property, and harm my people and make me a minority in my home. Just like a certain group wants the same. But when we want a peaceful homogenous society and to not take in endless streams of migrants we are Nazis. When other people want it s ok because they deserve their homeland for themselves right? and this matters only because I suspect Guest that you share a certain heritage I am hinting at Which explains your saying Nazis should die… well why not the real modern day Nazis that America and UK support unconditionally?

    Message to Greeks let us kill you slowly with mass immigration and austerity measures or if you oppose our EU program you deserve to die quickly. Sorry not interested in either and if anyone tries to kill me I will defend myself to the death.

  16. Christina G
    March 31, 2013    

    My parents and grandparents fought to keep Greece Greek not German they did not fight the Germans to make Greece Afro-Albo-Bangladesho-Pakistani.

    That video clip i posted tells you the story of a woman who was robbed several times not once..by illegal immigrants…and that is why she is voting for golden dawn because they helped make her neighborhood more safe and are interested in ending this never ending stream of people invading while our so-called European partners will not lift a finger to help no they want their last pound of flesh (austerity) measures.

    guest and diva if you think Greeks are so racist then why would you want to live amongst us?
    Is someone or some orgranization paying you to do your ant-greek propaganda here?

    You say the stupid Greeks voted for these two families ( basically Pasok and ND) well you see we can not win with you.. if we vote for Chrysi Avgi we are Nazis if we voter for Pasok and/or ND we are stupid.

    At least Diva says there is no one to vote. Then you just both admit this so-called Western Democratic system is simply a matter of the best government money and media control can buy.

    So another reason people vote for Golden Dawn is cause they see them as anti-establishment.

    Even KKE did not VOTE against the Austerity measures..

    And Tsipras flys to NYC to sit at the feet of George Soros.

    So tell me whats left?

    The Greens.. really.

    I really hope since you wish evil on me mr. guest that you in fact suffer at the hands of one of these illegal criminal thugs.

    You probably were happy that that girl in Paros got raped and robbed and killed (or almost killed),

    You anti-Greek racist bigot. Death to all those who want death of the Greeks.

  17. Christina G
    March 31, 2013    

    Guest am i not right about my point then … you want people you perceive to be Nazis (translations people who do not want their country over run with different races and cultures) but want your group (and you know which one I mean) to have its own little exclusive piece of real estate South East of Cyprus ( where btw black muslims immigrants in the thousands were recently summarily thrown out as unassimilateable and consider as a threat to the —ish character of that state ..fill in the blank…again why this matters in this discussion is that that I believe and I can tell that xenos/guest is a member or has —-ish heritage some how and in any case one of the major groups complaining about GD does not make the same complaint against Golden Dawn like words, speeches and attitudes towards foreigners when they originate from their own people/mother land that they defend…
    why beat around the bush and i mentioned it before anyway.

    WJC wants Golden Dawn Banned. But they do not want Shas banned
    WJC wants mass illegal immigration tolerated in Greece
    But for Israel its fine if they want to defend the character of their state (meaning ethnic character).

    this is not childishness
    All this matters cause you are throwing out the word Nazi like its water.
    Nazi this and that. Well if Nazi means I want to live and want my people to exist and not be minority in their homeland so be it. But to me that is not Nazi. Nazi to me means going and taking others peoples land and killing them because the God of the Bible told me so and NAzis is Germany not compensating Greece and then imposing deadly austerity measures on us which will prevent the economy from ever growing.

    I am not for killing anyway unless they are trying to kill or rob me.

    Even illegal immigrants I do not want them killed. I just want them to understand we can not take them for many reasons, economic just being one of them. and there too many of them its not like its just a few thousand or ten or twenty thousand. it s now easily over a million in a country of 10,000,000 and probably closer to 2 million and the bulk of which is arriving now.

    And those involved in selling drugs and raping and murdering to steal a camera and an Ipod well yes I want them dead.

  18. Christina G
    March 31, 2013    

    You are deluded if you think Golden Dawn can help you. Help you with what? To get a job? To provide an education that is respected around the world? To help the environment?

    ===========help with what======

    basic security from illegal immigrants crime
    and
    keeping my homeland a home land not a ho tel

  19. Guest (xenos)
    March 31, 2013    

    If you don’t want any visitors, tourists, investment capital and immigrant workers who keep Greek businesses alive (because that is what they did in the last 20 years or more), then feel free to leave the European Union, the Council of Europe and construct something like North Korea.

    See how your quality of life will improve then!

    Jackass.

  20. Guest (xenos)
    March 31, 2013    

    Nazi means:

    (1) accepting the ideas of the Third Reich and Adolf Hitler

    (2) refusing to accept the human rights of everyone, including illegal immigrants, because that is what human rights law is about

    (3) using violence against foreigners and gay people and those who don;t fit in, because the Nazi movement doesn;t accept such people

    (4) denying the Holocaust and other atrocities committed by the Nazis, tried by the world and found guilty of the most horrendous acts against humanity

    Golden Dawn does all of this. They should all be in prison as we speak (I will not insist that they are executed)

  21. Guest (xenos)
    March 31, 2013    

    Yes,. I am not angry with Greeks who support XA. I just think that they are deluded and a bit stupid, ignorant of their own history and culture, and need a good kick up the backside.

  22. Thom Yorke Joins in
    March 31, 2013    

    As I read this debate between Cristina and Xenos, I remember and admire the English Musician, “Thom Yorke” of Radiohead who said:

    “Respect is if you’re having a political argument with someone, just before you get to the point where you call them a fascist, you sort of step back and wonder how on earth THEY’VE ended up at this point of complete ignorance and stupidity.”

    In the end, when you see Golden Dawn asking for the death penalty for Immigrants for violent crimes as I saw recently in the Greek press, it makes me wonder why they don’t want the death penalty for Greeks as well for the same crime. Does that mean it’s OK for Greeks to do crime against Greeks, but not foreigners.

    Again, I invoke Thom Yorke logic on this one and will now go back to my glass of red wine.

  23. Christina G
    March 31, 2013    

    Mr. Yorke.

    I want the death penalty for anyone who kills others on purpose and especially if its to steal and rape on top of it to whether they are Greek or illegal immigrants.

    BUT it just so happens that illegal immigrants mostly Muslims who view us as subhuman infidels for not covering our women from head to toe in the heat are behind an inordinate amount of killing, raping, drug dealing, thieving, burglarizing,

    Mr. xenos/guest

    You present the migration and foreigners in Greece issue as an all or nothing game.

    You will then turn around to that last statement and say Golden Dawn does.

    Well like I said I do agree they are extremist but the hope is to vote for the extreme to balance things back the other way a bit. Already the other parties are waking up that people do not want mass immigration do not want austerity measures and hopefully will start to take more stances with the people that are closer to in line with the peoples wishes without mudding the waters with other ideas.

    (people did not vote for Golden Dawn because they care about rebuilding the Byzantine Empire or because they care about the views of the Golden Dawn on the holocaust)

    we do want tourist and sensible mutually advantageous investments -meaning opening up factories /businesses here that hire native Greeks at sensible wages…. not buying up our lands for cheap to build hotels so africans and afghanis can work in them as cheap labor..(Not fire sales of national assets) and we may in fact need migrants or guest workers in certain things but in only in very few certain numbers. These numbers we have today are excessive and the sources of the migration do not match our needs and are often not compatible or assimilateable (easily assimilateable)

    And its highly overrated to say immigration = economic growth

    Many nations do not have mass immigration and have good economies.
    And if immigration is needed it does not mean any number from anywhere regardless of skills regardless of criminal history, cultural assimilateability etc.

    the economy is not a means to end in itself. the economy should be made to operate for the needs and benefit of the people NOT the other way around. THATS the Captialist exploitation model if one Greek makes a 10 billion dollars that make sthe economy grow by 10 Billion but its not worth it to the other Greeks if it means no benefit to them and might mean that in order for that few people to make lots of money the rest have to have millions of others people swamping them out.

    thank you for defining what Nazi is xenos/guest.

    so why not step forward and apply that to all not just selected people like your cultural group.

    You bring up Nazis a lot and the holocaust and hitler. so one can not discuss those without discussing a certain tribal group.

    AGAIN why is any Nationalism evil if Europeans feel that way, but if ahem certain groups who since you like to use religion put this way, do not worship Jesus big hint, do it its OK.

    and NOT ONLY is it OK but then its not called out for hypocrisy when they complain that their own which are in a minority in other countries have to face Golden Dawn, Marine Le Pen, etc and those parties should be banned.

    to me complaints about all those Hitler/Holocaust just do not resonate … I do not care…no one cares… because the people complaining about that are the ones who do Hitler/Holocaust/Nazi things or are only willing to scream about Hitler/Holocaust/Nazi like things when it affect them BUT not when their own are doing it and often defend their own.

    You can not expect people to CRY for you when you are being Evil yourself doing the same things you are crying about.

    Its just logically who is going to listen to someone lecture on smoking when they are a smoker themselves?????

    You can not complain about murderers when you are murdering others.

    You must die one way or the other. But we must live.

    Nationalism for me, Multiculturalism (mass immigration = native extinction) for thee.

    But when the main pushers and defenders of multiculturalism and anti-nationalism practice same or worse then Golden Dawn in their little desert land and defend that desert country its a little hypocritical to ask us to listen to their complaints about Hitler, Holocaust etc. while they act as a lobby for Turkey to deny the Armenian genocide.
    This leads one to believe that their talk is all about their political gain and advantage they really do not care about human rights.

    ALSO I saw a protest by Pakistanis in Greece and one guy was holding up two signs

    NEVER against Fascism and then saying do not critcize Islam..

    think about it… in a supposed open democracy people should be able to criticize and examine ideas beliefs and philosophies.. If you can not do so then you are imposing your own fascism

    So to this Pakistani he hates Greek Fascism but want to impose IslamoFascism (where anyone criticizing his pedo-phile prophet should be arrested) and teh Leftist like you defend him but applaud when people defame Christianity or Christian icons like elder Paisios…
    i think in a democracty that s open truly alll religions etc should be open to critique and even caricature. not just one.

    Nazi means:

    (1) accepting the ideas of the Third Reich and Adolf Hitler

    just remove the word German should have a land all their own and take more land and others are subhuman and replace it with a name of tribal group that always complains about Hitler
    check that applies to the leaders of the groups complaining about Golden Dawn from that tribal group.

    (2) refusing to accept the human rights of everyone, including illegal immigrants, because that is what human rights law is about

    checking again for the foreign lobby group representing a certain tribe.
    want Greeks to be swamped out with never ending mass immigration, but do NOT respect the rights of non-tribal members in their desert country.

    (3) using violence against foreigners and gay people and those who don;t fit in, because the Nazi movement doesn;t accept such people

    Believe it or not they do this too.
    so Check again.

    (4) denying the Holocaust and other atrocities committed by the Nazis, tried by the world and found guilty of the most horrendous acts against humanity (tried by a kangaroo court, and found many times later and having to admit later well maybe the story about humans flesh used to make soaps and lampshades was not true but a fabrication,, so who knows what else they lied about finding out later that instead of 4,000,000 dead at a camp in Poland the true number that the scholars now agree to is 1,5000,000 but the 6,000,000 is not decreased).

    They Deny other peoples genocides because they want a monopoly on the worlds sympathy and for political real poltik (vis a vis helping Turkey denying the Armenian genocide) while demanding everybody be indoctrinated from childhood of their travails real or imagined.

    ‘you say;
    Golden Dawn does all of this. They should all be in prison as we speak (I will not insist that they are executed)

    AND WE KNOW WHO ELSE DOES THIS TOO>> TODAY not 60 70 years ago.
    and they do this while crying about the holocaust and demanding everybody turn a blind eye to their “nazism” while condemn Greeks for not wanting Greece to become Afro-Pakistan (IRONICALLY ENOUGH the same WJC and AJC etc. that condemn Golden Dawn were MUM when Israelis ordinary citizen rioted against and protested against the presence of Muslims African refugees in Israel and demanded and got their government to deport them!!!! but if Greeks do it we are Nazis ).

    Ok sure maybe one day someone will listen to your hypocrisy.

  24. Christina G
    March 31, 2013    

    What is your stake here? What is your job or business in this country?
    If you do not like Greeks but prefer Pakistanis and Africans then by all means go to Africa or Pakistan

    You play this as a zero sum game legalize illegals let whomever wants to come in or else your are a Nazi

    thats ridiculous.

    And yes we want tourists and visitors, but respectful ones and we do not want any so-called investments , but true investments that are mutually beneficially and equitable.

    and if an immigrant “helps” because he is cheap labor well he is not so cheap when he brings his whole family etc and the cost of having him here is socialized to the rest and the benefit of his “cheapness” is personalize by a few.

    A country should do its own work and if it cant then its people should decide who comes and how many not some foreigners.

  25. deviousdiva
    March 31, 2013    

    So many lies @Christina g so many lies….And Golden Dawn propaganda to the end. I cannot discuss this with you. You need to read what the grown-ups say about the issues and stop swallowing lines from the party rag.

  26. Guest (xenos)
    March 31, 2013    

    My dear ignorant Christina: every country in Europe has mass immigration. THat is the modern world, that is the reality. You live in a little dreamworld, like many Greeks, because you don’t actually know anything outside Greece.

  27. Guest (xenos)
    March 31, 2013    

    So now you try to turn this into a personal attack on me. Clearly, you do have the same values as Golden Dawn.

    Greece has been a member of the EU since 1981, and has to accept all European citizens as tourists, temporary residents or long-term residents. Of course, every other country in the EU gives citizenship to its residents — except Greece. So Greeks get British and French and German citizenship easily (max 5 years) and nobody can get Greek citizenship. Why? Because you are racists, that’s why. Plain and simple, like Nazi is plain and simple.

  28. Guest (xenos)
    March 31, 2013    

    Your question is very pertinent (and will not be welcomed by XA because it exposes their hypocrisy and lies).

    The reason that this paradox emerges, is that they actually do not really care about crime. After all, they are mostly criminals in that party. No, it is just an excuse, a pretext, to kill immigrants. Hitler did the same thing with the Jews: they are copying him. What a shame it is for Greeks that they are actually voting for criminals, Nazis and sub-human creatures to represent them in the Vouli.

  29. Kelly A
    April 10, 2013    

    “I want the death penalty for anyone who kills others on purpose and especially if its to steal and rape on top of it to whether they are Greek or illegal immigrants.”

    well good did you know that someone raped a littile boy from afganistan now how disgusting is that. and that happened before the Paros incident.

    Chrissy not all Muslims are bad people and most of these people do not even want to be in Greece if we can not help them at least they should not be abused as they are abused enough by international traffickers.

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