The only thing necessary for the persistence of evil is for enough good people to do nothing

Detention Centres On The Way

The coalition government is rushing to ready at least one detention centre before the general elections. After years of indifference and incompetence in working towards a proper asylum procedure and integration processes, the easiest  and most “vote effective” way is being taken on the immigration issue.

Build walls and prisons.

Mass arrests and enforced health checks have already begun, as well as the hurried deportations. As refugees here have no way of claiming or recieving asylum here without an enormous effort and a huge amount of luck, polititians have once again sidestepped the issues and, despite international calls to do so, no longer find it necessary to implement a proper immigration or asylum procedure. People will object to the money being spent to build these prisons but it is nothing compared to the money given by the EU to help Greece with its immigration issues that has been “lost” or squandered.

There is no will to deal with the issues in any real sense.

It’ll be a vote winner though and that’s all the counts to the political parties.

Civil Protection Minister Michalis Chrysohoidis said detention centres for undocumented immigrants will begin to operate before the general election.

Read the full article at the Athens News

17 Comments

  1. A Greek
    May 2, 2012    

    I think legitimate refugees and legal immigrants that are looking to integrate into the fabric of Greek life should be welcomed . That said, most illegals have no right to be in Greece (or any country illegally for that matter). The people in their own homeland wouldn’t appreciate it if countless numbers of people illegally crossed their borders like burglars at night. Trying to frame attempts to protect borders as “racism” makes a mockery of the term. Every nation has a right to control its borders and Greece is no exception. Every nation tries to protect its identity through controlled immigration and Greece is no exception.

    Furthermore while I don’t agree with racists like Golden Dawn….I equally don’t agree with far leftist extremists like Diva ether (including among some self-righteous fanatic commie Greeks). Some far leftist extremists bizarrely believe they are “fighting racism” by advocating essentially open borders and constantly demonizing the Greek people (which has the opposite effect of driving average Greeks to extremists like Golden Dawn). Someone legitimately interested in human rights would also write about racism among EDL in England, KKK America, etc.. etc… Where are all your articles about racism in your own homeland dear Diva?

    Since Diva hates Greeks so much I think it would be best if she went back home (where she would be free to constantly rant about racism in her own country and leave Greeks in peace). Ditto for any illegals that manipulate NGO’s under the guise of fake “human rights” to justify their illegal entry of our homeland and disregard for our laws.

    And to any LEGAL immigrants out there that made Greece your new homeland…if you demonstrate your patriotism (e.g. by protecting us against anti-Hellenic trollers in former Yugoslav republic… defend Greece against anti-Hellenic ranters.. .etc..)…..rather than constantly demonize Greeks with negative stories like Diva does (anti-Hellenic hysteria is currently globally fashionable) … I know the vast majority of Greeks warmly welcome you. (I know I do). You are here because you love us and our country(warts and all). Not only don’t we want you to leave but the vast majority of us consider you a national treasure.

  2. A Greek
    May 2, 2012    

    Just a point about open borders I’d like to add..

    Those that support them typically claim to support minorities. However,there is theory and then there is reality. in practice an open door policy effectively is a subtle way to erase a country (see old maps states that disappeared through history). In our ‘s case If Greece completely opened its borders eventually there would be no Greece left (and possible no Greeks given everyone pretends not to notice the former Yugoslavians change into “ancient Macedonians”)

    Those that argue “proper asylum procedure and integration processes”…. without also arguing “proper detention processes and deportation procedures”… are extremist far leftist crackpots that pose a very real security threat to our country (or any country whatsoever that wants to keep its sovereignty and identity intact)

    Aristotle advised moderation in all things. Do not listen to either the far left or far right. Both represent a form of evil in their own way. Moderate immigration is the correct moral and rational choice. We should speak out against leftist extremists seemingly trying to eradicate the Greek people much like we should defend talented immigrants that love and protect our homeland from extremists like Golden Dawn.. Most of the illegals should be expelled while at the same time we must work on an immigration policy focused on bringing in skilled labour that will work for the interests of Greece rather than expend effort against it like Diva constantly does.

  3. May 2, 2012    

    I am not going to waste my time responding to the ridiculous accusations that are continuously thrown at me by the 2 or 3 people who have a personal grudge against me. Anyone who can read can make up their own mind as to whether I am anti-Greek. Of course, if you equate critisism of certain policies (or lack of them) or actions as being anti anything, no-one can help you.

    I do want to clarify one thing though. I have always advocated proper detention processes, properly set-up detention centres and proper deportation procedures which bear little resemblance to what happens here in Greece. I have never said there should be unlimited immigration or open borders (please feel free to search this blog thouroughly) but a certain few (actually it’s 3 people) have decided I am an “extremist far right crackpot”. Nothing I can say or do is going to change that opinion of me but I would like to remind those who are new to the site that this is an old vendetta against me personally.

    And yet again, I ask my detractors to please try and separate what I say about what the corrupt and lazy polititians and authorities do on behalf of the people they represent from critisism of Greeks. Most of the time, as happens in all countries, the people are uninformed as to what is going on in their name.

    Like I said at the beginning, people can always read for themselves and make up their own mind in the end.

  4. May 2, 2012    

    I would also like to remind everyone that this is a blog about Greece and human rights. Not human rights in general. I have NO obligation to write about human rights in any other part of the world as that was not the premise of this blog.

    Also, please note that this blog started in JUNE 2005, (long before the current financial crisis) and I am saying the same things today as I said then. A lot of money has flowed into the country since I began this blog that was intended for exactly what we’re still talking about today. Proper detention facilities, proper asylum procedures, proper integration policies and proper deportation procedures. The money has been squandered away, lost? stolen? by the authorities who are meant to deal with these things. Where has that money gone?

    I reported, a few years back, on one such place that the authorities called a detention centre but was far from it. Amnesty International and many other international organisations condemned the conditions. (My quick search for the articles is here http://thisisnotmycountry.com/?s=Pagani+detention+centre)

    When people finanlly heard what was going on in that place, they were appalled. The then Deputy Citizens’ Protection Minister Spyros Vougias described the facility as “a concentration camp” and said it was “not a place for human beings.”

    So perhaps you will understand why I am sceptical about these new centres especially as there is no asylum or immigration procedure in place first.

  5. A Greek
    May 2, 2012    

    I’m not buying your BS. Everyone criticizes… not everyone devoted a Blog exclusively to demonizing a single ethnic group?.

    For instance, where are your stories on human rights violations in your own homeland? This is the Internet age after all. You could just as easily write about that no?

  6. A Greek
    May 2, 2012    

    You have no fricken clue what “proper detention processes, properly set-up detention centres and proper deportation procedures” are. You are UNQUALIFIED to have an opinion on them much less demonize Greeks over it.

    You just like to self-righteously rant against Greeks day-in day-out. The funny thing is you don’t even realize that the constant demonization of Greeks by foreigners is precisely whats driving Greeks to want to extremists that want to expell all foreigners.

  7. A Greek
    May 2, 2012    

    “I have NO obligation to write about human rights in any other part of the world as that was not the premise of this blog.”

    I disagree completely Human rights isn’t about demonizing only Greeks Diva. Human rights is about rights in all nations and all people. Greeks can be victims to racism my illegals in greece too. If you were concerned about human rights you’d write about the prejudices Greeks face by foreigners too (see all the foreigners that now play dumb as FYROM ultra nationalsit turns into “ancient macedonians” and constantly insinuate our homeland is “occupied”) You’d also criticize the illegals that disrespect our borders and constantly commit crimes. All the illegals aren’t “victims” as you portray them. A good portion of them are criminals and some of them even religious fanatics.

    Nazis and communists claimed to be concerned with human rights too. Occasional criticism is fine. One-sided demagoguery against Greeks is not human rights.

  8. A Greek
    May 2, 2012    

    You are “Sseptical” about new facilities specifically built because we listened to concerned by NGOs? That makes no sense whatsoever. If anything you should be APPLAUDING Greece for listening and building those facilities.

    You clearly harbour server prejudices against Greeks. You can’t help yourself but turn everything into one giant rant against Greeks.

  9. thedeviousdiva
    May 2, 2012    

    Yes, this is the internet age. I could write about anything I like. However, I chose to focus in human rights in Greece (as I stated above again). Perhaps you can explain to me how critisising on my particular blog becomes demonizing as far as you are concerned. Is it because of the focus on Greece? At the time when I started there was no English language (and very few Greek ones) blog on the subject and it was an important resource for those who cared about the isues. Now, there are quite a few and my blog is of much less significance in the scheme of things. In fact, I often wonder why you bother to attack every article I post here. Most of them are not even my own writing, just a collections of news from around the internet.

    I also wonder why you never actually READ anything I write either in the articles or in the comments. I just took time to answer about writing about human rights elsewhere and you blatantly ask me the same thing that you ask me in almost every comment you make. Sorry, I don’t get it.

  10. A Greek
    May 2, 2012    

    “people can always read for themselves and make up their own mind in the end.”

    Yes they can…. and believe it or not I am people too (despite being Greek). And I’m telling the tone of your criticism is way way over-the-top. You have a far better chance of being killed walking the streets of Washington DC by an American that you do by a Greek in Athens… yet you make it sound like Greece is Nazi Germany. That’s not human rights. That’s bigotry at work.

  11. A Greek
    May 2, 2012    

    You assume to many things. I have followed this blog for a long a time. I don’t leave this sorts of comments on Amnestry international because they are more careful with their choice of words and also criticize other nations not just Greeks.

    I also know many other Greeks have left comments criticizing this blog. Unfortunately you just are too patronizing to listen to valid criticism because whether conscious or not you see Greeks as far to too dumb to understand like smart people you. Its not that you are wrong to criticize extremists like Golden Dawn but you are trying to pit illegals, that don’t belong in Greece, versus the indigenous Greek people. They are people too but we didn’t ask them to come to our homeland nor did they ask us if they could come. Its not our fault they are in the situation they are in. They made those choices not the Greek people. Blame us for our fiances but blaming us for the effects of illegals violating our borders is unfair.

  12. May 2, 2012    

    “UNQUALIFIED to have an opinion”

    ???

    I obviously hit a nerve somewhere by replying to you.

    In the avalanche of negative news in the international press about human rights in Greece, I still wonder why you focus so much energy to this little corner of the internet? Is it just easier to pick on an individual rather than an organisation like the BBC or the New York Times?

  13. A Greek
    May 2, 2012    

    “Avalanche” is precisely the sort of language I”m talking. I can also frame racism in Britain as “an avalanche”…. ditto for Israel….. in the US….. Saudi Arabia….etc…. You don’t realize how you’ve all gotten into the habit of beating constantly on Greeks.

    I respect the BBC but you’re not victim. You are a victimizer. If you cared about human rights in Greece you would also write about the human rights violations against Greeks too. And As for the the NY Times editorial board…they are a bunch of antiHellenic BS artists that now dishonestly pretend not to notice FYROM’s change into “ancient Macedonians” and “United Macedonian” irredentist rhetoric (apprently threatening to ethnically erase Greeks and substitute themselves is “Human rights” according to FYROM apologists)

    And yes… you are unqualified to have a professional opinion about proper procedures for facilities. I know next to nothing about you but call it a hunch I doubt you have ever worked for immigration department to claim expertise. You know basically nothing about the procedures Greece is going to take and you’re already ranting about them. You can’t wait till some incident happens (as always happens) to blow it out of proportion.

  14. May 2, 2012    

    “trying to pit illegals versus the indigenous Greek people”

    where? when?

    Even when I’ve posted articles from Amnesty I am critisised for their words. In fact, I’ve been critisied for the articles of most organisations commenting on Greece and pretty much all the newspaper articles I’ve posted. So I’m used to it.

    And still you insult me further by saying that I think Greeks are dumb… though I think you might have used that one before?

    But I’m used to the insults by now. As used to them as you must be to writing them.

  15. A Greek
    May 2, 2012    

    What you call “insults” are valid criticisms. You just see yourself as far too smart to listen to a peasant oppressive Greek on ethics. (ironically a Greek derived word)

    If you want to participate in Greek society… rather than self-righteous preach to everyone else as if you some high priestess of ethics and we should all worship your views…. you are welcome to join any time. However, if you stop listening to the concerns of others when they tell you they feel they are being demonized…. don’t be shocked when they get upset and stop listening to you.

    If you really cared about human rights as you claim you’d consider our rights too. Greeks are not an iota less people than illegals. Do you understand this? Do you understand the amount of demonization Greeks have experienced globally these last few years? So where are your stories about the human rights violations on Greeks? Don’t they count?

  16. A Greek
    May 2, 2012    

    To put Greece in perspective….

    – while people complain about new Mosque permits in athens… not a single non-Muslim religious place of worship exists in Mecca.
    – 18 percent of the French population support Le Pen (what’s golden Dawn claiming 5%?)
    – Does it makes rational sense to ea poor small country in the middlle of a massive depression to handle 90% of the EU’s illegals? Seriously? Why aren’t the people that claim they “care” doing the sensible thing and lobbying their homelands to absorb those illegals?
    – complaints about a detention center that was specifically built because we listened to valid concerns about overcrowding… are EXTREMELY offensive and patronizing. You should be appluading our government for spending the money even though we don’t have it (that could have gone to Greek families I would add)
    – We are constantly lectured for not recognziing FYROM because we said 20 year ago they would attempt to usurp our identity and insinuate Greece was occupied. So-called “experts” ignored our concerns and even patronizingly mocked us as oppressors. Who was right? (see giant Alexander statue)
    – for all the talk about corruption amongst Greece, if one moves away from white collar crime and starts to look at more serious crimes like rape, murders, robberies… one will find Greeks are actually one of the least prone to crime..
    – how many lazy stereotypes are out there… when Greeks work longer hours than anyone else in Europe? (at least on the ones that are employed)

    I could go on.

    I could go

  17. A Greek
    May 2, 2012    

    Just to show you my claims of prejudice against Greeks is very real (including a few that claim to support human rights and minorities)

    Here is a recent article in the NY Times about name dispute.

    http://atwar.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/04/26/macedonias-plea-for-a-seat-in-nato-falls-on-busy-ears/

    – Nowhere do they mention FYROM’s sudden change into “ancient Macedonians”
    – nowhere do the mention FYROM’s own politicians only a few years ago used to assure everyone they weren’t related to ancient Macedonians
    – nowhere do they mention FYROM nationalists are (mostly) descendents of Bulgarians
    – nowhere do they mention FYROM nationalist hypcrtically deny our identity as “real” Greeks while having the audicity to lecture us
    – nowhere do they mention the US itself used to call FYROM’s Macedonian identity “communist demagoguery” during cold war.
    – nowhere do they mention they rampent “United Macedonia” rhetoric with claims Macedonia is “divided” and framing our Macedonia as “occupied”.

    Instead they mention a red herring of FYROM sending troops to Afghanstan? What in Hades does that have to do with the name dispute?

    Now how are any Greeks supposed to believe anyone’s claims they support “human rights” when they stay dead silent about FYROM’s behavior?

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