The only thing necessary for the persistence of evil is for enough good people to do nothing

Asylum Claims Must Not Be Overlooked

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Finally, I found a response to the armed border guards that addresses one of the concerns I had about the whole situation. The UNHCR has warned against

sidelining asylum needs in order to control migration influx

The refugee agency  urges Greece to ensure that asylum and refugees claims are properly processed and that its broken asylum system be fixed. Greece has the lowest asylum recognition rate in Europe, less than 1%, and has been repeatedly asked by the UN, the European Union and other international authorities to overhaul its management of asylum seekers and refugees. The Greek authorities have repeatedly failed to do so. This problem did not start recently, during this financial crisis. It has been happening for years. There has been a total lack of willingness to tackle the issue of immigration despite the fact that people have been warning that this current mess would occur if they didn’t.

The Dublin II agreement states that asylum applications must be dealt with in the first EU country that an applicant arrives in. This has meant that asylum seekers and refugees, trying to move on to other European countries, have to be deported back to Greece to have their claims heard here. Those claims are rarely dealt with and when they are, they are most likely to be refused on arbitrary grounds. There is little or no chance for appeal. Most have no access to legal support and have ended up in an illegal limbo. Unable to return to their own country for fear of percecution, conflict, war, famine and poverty. Unable to move on to another European country that might grant them asylum or refugee status because of the Dublin II agreement.

Austria has joined a growing list of EU countries (Norway, Sweden, Germany and Holland) who have intervened to prevent the return of people seeking asylum, under the Dublin II agreement, because of the appalling way they are treated here in Greece. The Austrian court

judged the return of vulnerable asylum seekers to Greece unconstitutional and accepted the petition of an Afghan mother with three small children that she remain in Austria

Read the full article on the UNHCR statement at the Athens News

Read the full article on Austria’s decision at the Athens News

19 Comments

  1. Post Disagreement
    November 2, 2010    

    The UNHCR has warned against

    sidelining asylum needs in order to control migration influx”

    THE UNHCR is delusional all nations have a right and a duty to control migration as its a security issue. Asylum needs are secondary especially for a nation that does not have the capacity to assimilate or deal with the ones already there.

    BTW should not the UNHCR be scolding the many Muslim nations these immigrants travel accross to due their fair share to help their co-religionists????

    Under the guise of human rights mass immigration is being forced unto European populations…Notice that its only European nations being asked to multiculturalize..Japan Korea and the wealthy arab states are not being asked to do this..

    Barbara Lerner Spectre of Paidea in Stockholm tells us that Europe is going to be and must be more multicultural and who is behind it.

    Multiculturalism / Mass immigration is national suicide.

  2. A concerned citizen
    November 3, 2010    

    As a member of the EU since 1981, under European law and as a signatory to the revised Geneva Convention, Greece has a legal and humanitarian obligation to protect refugees. Some Greeks seem to think that these obligations mean nothing. You know what I think of those Greeks? They don’t belong in the civilised world, they are not fit to be given the time of day.

    Yes, many of the asylum-seekers and refugees have travelled via Turkey. Turkey has not signed the Bellagio Protocol and does not have the same legal obligations as Greece under the Geneva Convention. Turkey is not a member of the EU and has no legal obligations other than a trading agreement.

    So, perhaps the conclusion is that certain Greeks want Greece to be more like Turkey? This is the logical outcome of their demands. You know what? They are probably right: Greece doesn’t belong in Europe, if Greeks don’t share European values. Better to join the Arab countries, whose behaviour seems to be closer to Greek standards.

  3. Cinzano
    November 3, 2010    

    Why can’t some silly people digest a simple concept: The poorer European nations such as Greece can’t cope with the HUGE INFLUX of refugees. The only people who should primarily be “protecting refugees” is the countries who are RESPONSIBLE for making them refugees in the first place: America and the UK with their wars of terror are mostly repsonsible for people leaving their countries and should house, clothe and feed these people….the refugees themselves want to go to America and Britian but they are being forced against their will to live in poor countries because of unworkable laws like the Dublin Agreement…..

  4. A concerned citizen
    November 3, 2010    

    Sorry Cinzano, you’re talking crap. The money stolen by just one Greek politician would pay for the cost of refugees for a decade. Greece has plenty of money, but in the hands of a few who have stolen it. The majority of people are struggling to survive, but we all know where the money is.

    Of course, nobody is denying that the Dublin Convention is a disaster. But Greek politicians have never argued against it, or demanded its reform because they liked the cheap labour of “illegal immigrants’ and asylum seekers. Again, the actions of past politicians come back to haunt us.

  5. Post Disagreement
    November 3, 2010    

    As a member of the EU since 1981, under European law and as a signatory to the revised Geneva Convention, Greece has a legal and humanitarian obligation to protect refugees. Some Greeks seem to think that these obligations mean nothing.

    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    Problem is to you that means that anybody showing up on our doorstep no matter how many should be let in.

    And since as you say the politicians stole the money well then there is no more money and its not fair to ordinary Greeks to shoulder the social and economic burden.

    ironically you say Greece should join the Muslims world etc…but by following what you recommend Greece will join the Muslim world/African World etc. and be anything but a homeland of the Greeks and the facts are we face becoming a minority in our own homeland..within a few generations.

    These treaties and conventions did not anticipate the numbers seeking refuge.

    So we have to adjust to reality.

    Reality is Greece can not take in 90,000 people in a year in fact right now Greece should be expelling illegal immigrants and/or working with richer nations to absorb some of the refugees if in fact they are war / political refugees and not economic migrants.

  6. Cinzano
    November 3, 2010    

    The money stolen by just one Greek politician would pay for the cost of refugees for a decade.

    I’m sorry, you’re living in cloud cuckoo land – do you actually have any idea how many refugees are crossing into “frontline” countries such as Greece Spain and italy?

    No country, not even the UK with all our riches, could cope with 100,000 refuges per year EVERY YEAR. Do you have any idea how many hospitals, how much medical care, how much food, how many buildings for accomodation, how many clothes, how many doctors nurses you need to handle such a large number of immigrants?
    Conserative estimates put the refugee figure in Greece as 1 million, that’s equivalent to 8 million people in the UK with a million pouring into the UK every year. Not even the years of plundering which my country has exacted on other countries over the years could pay for this level of immigration. The poorer European countries simply can’t cope with this level of immigration and no amount of accusations and finger pointing will change this fact. Start living in the real world and start looking at the FACTS rather than using your prejudiced viewpoints to accuse a whole nation of xenophobia just because they can’t handle the unprecedented level of immigration.

  7. A concerned citizen
    November 3, 2010    

    It’s not 100,000 a year any year, let alone every year. You’re talking crap again, Cinzano. You wouldn’t know a fact if one bit you on the ass. Your whole attitude is just a pile of excrement.

    And did i say that they should all be allowed to stay? No, only those who are children or with genuine claim to refugee status. Instead of a proper refugee application process, the greek state used to send them all to Athens and give them Pink cards. Now it tries to lock them all up, instead. Both are stupid, illegal and irresponsible policies.

    And yes, it is not fair to ordinary Greeks. Absolutely true. But that is what happens when you have decades of corrupt political parties and governments sucking the lifeblood out of a country. Don’t blame the refugees for the stupidity of the Greek people over the last 25 years or so.

  8. Cinzano
    November 3, 2010    

    It’s not 100,000 a year any year, let alone every year. You’re talking crap again, Cinzano.

    You’re right Citizen, it’s not 100,000 per year, it’s 150,000 a year:

    Greece is not the only southern European country to be targeted by people smugglers. Spain, Italy and Malta have also been hit by an influx of immigrants but Greece and its islands are seen as Europe’s easiest “backdoor” entrance. Last year an estimated 150,000 migrants, mostly from Asia but also from Africa, illegally entered Greecehttp://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/sep/27/greek-islands-immigration-tensions-soar

    Start living in the real world and stop blaming a handful of corrupt politicians on everythiing. The problem stems from rich imperialist countries waging wars on populous countries and creating war refugees who move in their thousands to the first safe countries they reach i.e. the the frontline EU countries of Greece, Spain, Italy…..

  9. A concerned citizen
    November 4, 2010    

    The figures are crap. Helena Smith exaggerates everything to make her career. And some people are stupid enough to believe these things. If you want figures, ask the UNHCR.

    And I didnt notice your previous bullshit about 1 million refugees in Greece! i have never read such crap in my life! Most of the single Albanians have left Greece in this recession because there is no work. The total number of immigrants in Greece never exceeded 1.2 million, and has decreased in recent years. The number of asylum seekers is a tiny fraction of immigrants.

    There are now less than 100,000 IN TOTAL asking for asylum. GOD, the propaganda and shite that is out there… Along with cretins who recite it to us… and tell us we don’t know the facts

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

  10. Cinzano
    November 4, 2010    

    Again, i have to slap down your hysterical nonsense with some cold hard facts:

    “EU states should do more to lighten the migrant burden on Greece, which has created “catastrophic” conditions for refugees, the UN special rapporteur on torture Manfred Nowak said Thursday.
    Greece has by far the biggest responsibility today in dealing with irregular immigrants,” Nowak told Austrian radio Oe1.
    “While in 2008, 50 percent of all arrests of so-called illegals in the European Union took place in Greece, in the first eight months of 2010, it was 90 percent,” he added.
    Tighter borders and regulations have diverted many refugees from Spain, Malta and Italy towards Greece, the Austrian diplomat said.
    At the same time, Greece, as a common first port of entry into the European Union, must also deal with refugees sent back by other states under current EU migration regulations, known as the Dublin II system.
    Europe has to take action,” Nowak said, calling for an “immediate stop to all Dublin II returns.”
    It is incomprehensible that one country like Greece, which furthermore is in the midst of a big economic crisis, should take on most of the burden of immigration towards Europe,” he noted.
    In the long-term, “European states have to act collectively and figure out a sensible immigration policy, whether a quota system, fairer distribution, or the creation of a common asylum procedure.”
    Nowak, who was part of a UN fact-finding mission to Greece this week, noted that conditions in detention centres for refugees in that country were “catastrophic” and “inhuman.”
    The Greek authorities are completely overextended,” he said.
    In 2006, EU Internal Affairs Commissioner Cecilia Malmstroem estimated that about 80,000 illegal immigrants had settled in Greece that year alone, and that the total illegal population could be close to a million in total.
    The effects are also felt in Greece’s overcrowded detention centres where conditions are “inhuman”, United Nations special rapporteur on torture Manfred Nowak said this week.”
    http://www.eubusiness.com/news-eu/greece-un-refugees.6nf/?searchterm=Greece immigration
    http://www.eubusiness.com/news-eu/greece-immigration.6oj/?searchterm=Greece immigration

    The whole world and it’s dog knows that Greece simply can’t cope with the huge influx of immigrants and desperately needs help but you keep banging on about corrupt politicians. And DD portrays the poor country as committing some sort of immigrant Holocaust.

    GREECE IS SIMPLY OVERWHELMED BY THE NUMBER OF IMIGRANTS REACHING IT’S SHORES, WITH ALL THE BEST WILL IN THE WORLD, GREECE NOR ANY OTHER COUNTRY COULD NOT COPE WITH THIS LEVEL OF IMMIGRATION AND THE EIU HAS RECOGNISED THIS FACT.

    The sooner you finally grasp this simple reality, the better.

  11. A concerned citizen
    November 4, 2010    

    Cinzano, you are an idiot who doesn’t live in or know anything about Greece. Just cut it with the crap statistics from other people who are obviously as ignorant as you. You make a fool of yourself, for no reason.

  12. deviousdiva
    November 4, 2010    

    Yes, we know Greece can’t cope. This is painfully obvious to everyone. This does not excuse the fact that conditions in detention centres are “catastrophic” and “inhumane”. I am NOT saying and have NEVER said that Greece should deal with this alone but there has to be some recognition that the problem exists and something must be done. Immediately. And that the country has the will to do it. I have NEVER remotely portrayed Greece as committing an “immigrant holocaust” just because I have said (and reported what other people have said) that the situation in Greece for immigrants is appalling. It is appalling.

    It is a fact that Greece has received a lot of money to assist in this situation and that money has “disappeared”. What are other countries in Europe supposed to conclude from this?

    The asylum system is broken. The truth is, there has never been a proper asylum process put in place here. It seems to be a lottery with very few (almost zero) people winning. This is not to do with a recent influx. This has been going on for at least a decade. What are we supposed to conclude from this?

    Greece may well be overwhelmed now but it wasn’t 10 years ago when just a few people were practically screaming themselves hoarse pointing out that this would happen if Greece didn’t get its act together.

    The citizens of Greece have suffered enormously from the corruption of the politicians and authorities. Money for infrastructure and public facilities have disappeared. Millions upon millions. Promises have been broken. This is not a recent phenomenon. This is decades old.

    With the current financial crisis, Greece has been brought into sharp focus, not only to its citizens but to the rest of the world. What many fail to understand is that the root of the problem is not recent. Not even close. And many are shocked to hear about the depth of the corruption.Those of us that live here are not shocked. Many have been very vocal about it for years but that hasn’t made the slightest difference to what happens here. Yet.

    Greece has asked for and received a lot of funding to deal with immigration. I still wonder where that money went. Most people can understand the reluctance of the European Union to throw more money at Greece when they discover that people are being locked up in inhumane detention centres. Or that thousands are trapped here with no papers and no hope of getting any.

    I wonder whether, now that this border patrol army has been deployed, Greece will be better able to cope? What happens to the people they catch? Does Greece have a system to cope with them? What happens to unaccompanied minors? Will they simply be deported back into Turkey as they have been in the past or has some system of support and care been miraculously set up overnight?

    I realise that, for some people here, anything that means no-one entering Greece is a good thing. I see further opportunity for ignoring or getting rid of genuine asylum seekers.

    The EU has tried to help Greece in the past to deal with the immigration situation but nothing has been improved. I don’t see this latest measure helping either, apart from keeping the numbers down.

    Will Greece implement a proper asylum procedure? Will conditions in detention centres improve? Will people that are already here have some way of getting papers and integrating into society?

    I don’t think so.

    I really hope I’m wrong

  13. Post Disagreement
    November 5, 2010    

    You are right DD we are pleased at the prospect that there maybe some decline in the arrivals.. That being said I do not disagree with you that something should be done with those already here rather than jsut letting them loose on the street with a 30 day warrant to leave.. either they need to be processed as asylum seekers or immediately deported.

    If we find that they are legit but he numbers are too high for absorption thats when we tell our partners to help. Otherwise if they wont any in excess than those we are able or willing to absorb must go back tot Turkey.

  14. Guardian are Greek haters
    November 5, 2010    

    Hey look. Another article with Devious Diva demonizing Greece.

    Let me take one point at at time.

    ** “It is a fact that Greece has received a lot of money to assist in this situation and that money has “disappeared”. What are other countries in Europe supposed to conclude from this?”

    Criticism about Greece’s fiances is earned but lets also keep in context the GDP/capita of Greece is less than most of the EU… and in faces far far more illegal immigrants than any EU nation (relative to its size second place isn’t even close).

    So what are Greeks are supposed to conclude when people like you try and shift moral responsibility for those illegals virtually entirely on the hands of Greeks? You claim otherwise but all your criticism is directed to Greece. Couldn’t other EU nations accept today the hundreds of thousands of illegals… rather than hide behind the Dublin agreement? Couldn’t other EU nations… like England…. have built facilities to house those illegals all these years? (since you claim they “care” so deeply)

    *** “The citizens of Greece have suffered enormously from the corruption of the politicians and authorities”

    Greece faces more tax evasion (and possibly nepotism) than most EU countries but not to the extent you make it. Its flirtation with insolvency has more more to do with far leftists getting Greece into severe debt (and high bond prices that made it impossible for Greece to borrow money) Had Japan, with its 190% GDP/debt ratio, higher than Greece, faced 8% borrowing rather (rather than less than 2%) it too could face possible bankruptcy.

    *** “Greece has asked for and received a lot of funding to deal with immigration. I still wonder where that money went. ”

    You make a claim but fail to produce actual numbers (which I bet you don’t actually know do you?). One can’t assess truth based on speculative accusations.

    ** “I wonder whether, now that this border patrol army has been deployed, Greece will be better able to cope? What happens to the people they catch?”

    England is welcome to accept the majority of them… unless of course you’re saying the English are some sort of racists if they refuse to?

    *** Will they simply be deported back into Turkey as they have been in the past or has some system of support and care been miraculously set up overnight?

    This is good question. Did you ask this when countries were deporting illegals back to Greece for over a decade? (adding to the current mess of illegals in Greece)

    *** “Will Greece implement a proper asylum procedure? Will conditions in detention centres improve? Will people that are already here have some way of getting papers and integrating into society?”

    I don’t know what some vague “proper asylum procedure” means to a far leftist. Given Greece already overrun with illegals I think Greece should start deportations to source nation until its illegal immigrant numbers match those of other EU nations (relative to size). If other EU nations like England want to accept those illegals instead great. It would also be great if Greek haters considered toning down their endless hypocritical scapegoat rants against Greece.
    http://www.google.ca/search?um=1&hl=en&biw=1797&bih=952&q=wikileaks+torture&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=iw

  15. Guardian are Greek haters
    November 5, 2010    

    Hey look. Another article with Devious Diva demonizing Greece.

    Let me take one point at at time.

    ** “It is a fact that Greece has received a lot of money to assist in this situation and that money has “disappeared”. What are other countries in Europe supposed to conclude from this?”

    Criticism about Greece’s fiances is earned but lets also keep in context the GDP/capita of Greece is less than most of the EU… and in faces far far more illegal immigrants than any EU nation (relative to its size second place isn’t even close).

    So what are Greeks are supposed to conclude when people like you try and shift moral responsibility for those illegals virtually entirely on the hands of Greeks? You claim otherwise but all your criticism is directed to Greece. Couldn’t other EU nations accept today the hundreds of thousands of illegals… rather than hide behind the Dublin agreement? Couldn’t other EU nations… like England…. have built facilities to house those illegals all these years? (since you claim they “care” so deeply)

    *** “The citizens of Greece have suffered enormously from the corruption of the politicians and authorities”

    Greece faces more tax evasion (and possibly nepotism) than most EU countries but not to the extent you make it. Its flirtation with insolvency has more more to do with far leftists getting Greece into severe debt (and high bond prices that made it impossible for Greece to borrow money) Had Japan, with its 190% GDP/debt ratio, higher than Greece, faced 8% borrowing rather (rather than less than 2%) it too could face possible bankruptcy.

    *** “Greece has asked for and received a lot of funding to deal with immigration. I still wonder where that money went. ”

    You make a claim but fail to produce actual numbers (which I bet you don’t actually know do you?). One can’t assess truth based on speculative accusations.

    ** “I wonder whether, now that this border patrol army has been deployed, Greece will be better able to cope? What happens to the people they catch?”

    England is welcome to accept the majority of them… unless of course you’re saying the English are some sort of racists if they refuse to?

    *** Will they simply be deported back into Turkey as they have been in the past or has some system of support and care been miraculously set up overnight?

    This is good question. Did you ask this when countries were deporting illegals back to Greece for over a decade? (adding to the current mess of illegals in Greece)

    *** “Will Greece implement a proper asylum procedure? Will conditions in detention centres improve? Will people that are already here have some way of getting papers and integrating into society?”

    I don’t know what some vague “proper asylum procedure” means to a far leftist. Given Greece already overrun with illegals I think Greece should start deportations to source nation until its illegal immigrant numbers match those of other EU nations (relative to size). If other EU nations like England want to accept those illegals instead great. It would also be great if Greek haters considered toning down their endless hypocritical scapegoat rants against Greece and focus on other countries too.

    (e.g. How about England Diva?)
    http://www.google.ca/search?um=1&hl=en&biw=1797&bih=952&q=wikileaks+torture&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=iw

  16. Guardian are Greek haters
    November 5, 2010    

    “Lawyers claim secret Government documents show Tony Blair knew as early as January 2002 of allegations of torture involving UK nationals held in Afghanistan and Guantanamo Bay”
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/blair-knew-of-torture-allegations-
    in-2002-2092227.html

    “Anti-Semitic attacks in the UK doubled in the first half of this year compared with the same period in 2008, according to new figures. The Jewish Community Security Trust, which monitors anti-Semitism, says it recorded 609 incidents between January and June – up from 276 last year. Most incidents were abusive behaviour, but there were also 77 violent acts. ”
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/8166173.stm

    “Britain has one of the worst human rights records in Europe and faces investigation over its failure to comply with a series of European court rulings.”
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/britain-in-the-dock-for-human-rights-failures-after-more-than-100-guilty-judgements-filed-509348.html

    So how does the UK stack up against Greece with violence against minorities in practice dear Diva? Have you ever actually bothered to check?

    So would you like it if some Greek started blogs dedicated virtually entirely to digging up any negative news article (real or imagined) on English people that they could find ? You think that average people in the UK would find that ethically tolerable? Or would they be justified in feeling upset at being singled out for such patronizing vitriol?

    I don’t mind criticism of Greece, but I do mind it when it comes from someone that focuses virtually entirely on Greece (or from someone whose criticism is more about vicious sensationalist hyperbole rather than statistically based objective assessments)

    Is it you are having difficulty finding other nations to also write about minority rights about Diva? Do not human rights violations happen in other countries too? Is using Google to difficult?

    Please remind me again who is being “abusive” again?

  17. Guardian are Greek haters
    November 5, 2010    

    A concerned citizen writes “There are now less than 100,000 IN TOTAL asking for asylum.”

    More half truths. What is officially asked for asylum and what the numbers on the street are wildly different numbers. The vast majority of illegals don’t ask for amnesty because they fear deportation. Over 30,000 crossed a single 12.5 K stretch of Greece’s border (near Nea Vyssa_in three months and you want to take a claim of only 100K for all of Greece seriously?

    Are you smoking crack as you type your drivel? One could easily find over a 100K illegals in downtown Athens much less all of Greece. How can Greece legally accept any immigrants whatsoever when it is already flooded with huge numbers of illegal ones? (relative to its population)
    http://www.economist.com/node/16847278?story_id=16847278

    There are literally hundreds of thousands of illegals in Greece. The fact you even tried to pawn off the ridiculously low number at 100K speaks volumes about your lack of moral and intellectual integrity. (i.e. personal prejudices towards Greeks masked by over-the-top slanderous attempts to portray all Greeks as racists)

    The UK, ten times Greece’s size and wealthier, is welcome to accept every single one of Greece’s hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants. Greece will gladly ship them all over by airplane or boat to be processing by English authorities…. at which point I’m sure Greece would be more than happily to provide new illegal immigrants at amnesty at the same rate as England.

    (VIENNA) – EU states should do more to lighten the migrant burden on Greece, which has created “catastrophic” conditions for refugees, the UN special rapporteur on torture Manfred Nowak said Thursday.”

    “Greece has by far the biggest responsibility today in dealing with irregular immigrants,” Nowak told Austrian radio Oe1.

    “While in 2008, 50 percent of all arrests of so-called illegals in the European Union took place in Greece, in the first eight months of 2010, it was 90 percent,” he added.

    Tighter borders and regulations have diverted many refugees from Spain, Malta and Italy towards Greece, the Austrian diplomat said.

    At the same time, Greece, as a common first port of entry into the European Union, must also deal with refugees sent back by other states under current EU migration regulations, known as the Dublin II system.

    “Europe has to take action,” Nowak said, calling for an “immediate stop to all Dublin II returns. “It is incomprehensible that one country like Greece, which furthermore is in the midst of a big economic crisis, should take on most of the burden of immigration towards Europe,” he noted.”

  18. A concerned citizen
    November 5, 2010    

    GGH:
    I appreciate your point, but you are wrong on several issues. The first is that the asylum-seekers (Pink Card holders) are absolutely concentrated in central Athens, where I live. It is a mistake to think that this occurs all over Greece. And like others, I do not welcome this fact, but it is mainly caused by the Greek state.

    The second issue is about “illegal” as you call them, versus asylum seekers. Actually, we cannot even begin to make the distinction in Greece. WHY? Because the Greek state handed out Pink Cards to EVERYONE at the front of the queue regardless of their claim to protection, refused to record on paper their reasons for asylum, then tried to deport everyone after 6 months. The immigrants knew this, so all went underground and became illegal — regardless of their actual legal rights. Human Rights watch did detailed research on that in 2008 and 2009, showing that everything the Greek state has done is illegal and basically stupid.

    Finally, on the statistical data. The figures being used include Albanians crossing into Greece from Albania. They have nothing to do with asylum and the greek state finds it convenient to give out these lies, as it has done for decades.

    So, I repeat: don’t blame the asylum seekers for the monumental fuckup that Greek politicians have made of Greece. Try to show a little compassion for people whose lives are much worse than ours (despite the fact that we all suffer now).

  19. Guardian are Greek haters
    November 5, 2010    

    “I do not welcome this fact, but it is mainly caused by the Greek state.”

    Absolutely not. It is caused by illegals that disrespect Greece borders. You are trying to blame the victim for the crimes of the perp.

    “Human Rights watch did detailed research on that in 2008 and 2009, showing that everything the Greek state has done is illegal and basically stupid.”

    Your vague over generalizations are empty of substance.

    Furthermore, while I respect HRW as a genuine human rights organization (since unlike you and Diva, find many many countries to criticize other than just Greece), I don’t think everything that comes out of representatives mouths of ANY organization should be taken as absolute moral authority (including human rights organizations).

    For instance, where is Helsinki Greece to be found now that FYROM nationalists are making endless references to “united Macedonia” and trying to claim their identity as s “ancient Macedonians”… directly contradicting the claims of their own government representatives of only a few years ago? (I seem to recall Greece claimed in 1991 that their choice of name was implicitly a claim on Macedonia Greece… and were mocked by many. (all those that mocked have now seemingly developed a case of selective amnesia and constantly change the subject every time the current government of FYROM’s behavior is brought into focus)

    “US Snubs Greece for Macedonia”
    e BBC’s Matt Prodger says the US move will be a boost for the Macedonian government ahead of a controversial referendum aimed at overturning legislation giving more rights to the minority ethnic Albanians. “Today is a great day for Macedonia and all Macedonians wherever they are,” Mr Crvenkovski said. My message to the Greek government and to the Greek people is that the Republic of Macedonia is strongly determined to continue to build friendly and good-neighbourly relations. But Greek Foreign Minister Petros Molyviatis said: “Apart from our protest, I noted the many negative effects that this unilateral US decision will have.”
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3981499.stm

    Today…. (with the human rights groups that criticized Greeks hiding in the bushes and pretending not to notice)

    “The country has renamed its national stadium for King Philip II, Alexander’s father, and organized dozens of archaeological digs. Officials also like to needle Greeks that the philosopher Aristotle, who tutored the teenage Alexander, was from the kingdom of Macedonia, not Athens. “Pasko Kuzman, the government’s director of cultural heritage, is a driving force behind Macedonia’s surge of interest in the past. With flowing white hair, three heavy-duty watches strapped to his thick wrists and a National Geographic fanny pack, he has been described as a cross between Indiana Jones and Santa Claus. “In an interview in his office, sitting next to a wall-size copy of a 13th-century icon of Alexander, Kuzman insisted that Greece had stolen the conqueror’s legacy from Macedonia, not the other way around.”
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/27/AR2009072702653.html

    Do you understand that those that stay silent about FYROM’s erratic behavior appear like ethnic cleansers of Greeks to me? How can I take their claims of “human rights” seriously when they constantly avoid pointing out FYROM’s bizarre and hateful behavior towards Greeks in their reporting? (but don’t miss a beat when it comes time to demonizing Greeks) Are Greeks not human too? Don’t we have a right to our identity, dignity and human rights as well?

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