The only thing necessary for the persistence of evil is for enough good people to do nothing

High Treason in Greece

UPDATE: Teacher Dude posted about this at Now Public where it has gained much interest (and disbelief) from readers.

Following on from my post yesterday, I want to point out that what is happening to me (threats from nationalists and obnoxious comments) is nothing compared to what is happening to Panayote Dimitras from the Greek Helsinki Monitor. He is facing charges of high treason for speaking out about Macedonians in Greece. If convicted, he faces life in prison. I find it unbelievable that this is happening in Europe. Unbelievable. Please put the word out if you can. It is important that the world knows what is happening here to people who stand up for the things they believe in.

Here is the actual interview for the BBC

Here is one response to this latest fiasco.

Below is the press release from the Greek Helsinki Monitor

17 September 2008

Greece: Panayote Dimitras facing high treason charges for speaking about Macedonians

Greek Helsinki Monitor (GHM) distributes the transcription of an interview by its Spokesperson Panayote Dimitras to BBC Macedonian given on 16 September 2008, after the press conference in Athens of the UN Independent Expert on Minority Issues Gay McDougall. The interview was given in English and broadcast with a voice over in Macedonian (available electronically at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZxg2o7YB3g). The transcription is from a translation back to English. As a result there are several mistakes corrected by GHM below. Parallel to that interview, Panayote Dimitras gave several interviews to Greek and British media.

Panayote Dimitras facing high treason charges for speaking about Macedonians
http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/3525/46/

Greece has an investigation against me, the charges are “high treason”, because I had spoken about the Macedonians in Greece, says Panayote Dimitras in an interview for BBC Macedonian (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZxg2o7YB3g).

Mr. Dimitras is a member of the Greek Helsinki Monitor.

“I already met the prosecutor and gave my statement. If I end up in Court, the only possible sentence is jail for life.” says Dimitras, a long time campaigner for minority rights in Greece.

This interview was done shortly after the visit of UN Independent minority expert Gay McDougall in Northern Greece. Mr. Dimitras accompanied McDougall on her visit. [GHM note: incorrect – Mr. Dimitras met with Ms. McDougall in Athens and was also present in her press conference; he did not accompany her anywhere].

Himself and other members of the Greek Helsinki Monitor informed McDougall on all questions regarding her mandate; on the Macedonian, Turkish, religious minorities, including the Roma population, problems with racism and anti-Semitism.

– The message to the UN expert was this: the conditions in Greece are dire; none of the minority groups are represented at any level. In fact, if and when any of these minorities have a complaint, they are frequently attacked by the Media and Government. It’s not just minorities. Organizations, such as ours that fights for equal rights and promotes rights, are being attacked. If I can use one sentence: Democracy in Greece came in 1974, it has yet to come for the minorities, says Mr. Dimitras.

Can you describe McDougall’s reaction after she heard the responses from Greek Helsinki Monitor?

– We are not allowed to speak of her reactions. The only thing I can say is, something that she said at a Press Conference in Athens that the recommendations and suggestions of the UN Committee, and the Greek Helsinki Monitor would be part of her report [GHM note: incorrect – Mr. Dimitras mentioned that the recommendations of the UN Treaty Bodies and other intergovernmental organizations will be included in her report]. And in those reports it is easy to see that Greece negates the existence of Macedonian and Turkish people, as well as the catastrophic situation of our Roma population. I do not doubt for a second that McDougall’s report would be much different than our [GHM note: Greece’s not GHM’s] official position i.e. there are people in Greece who identify themselves differently from the Greeks.

Do you think this visit would change something?

– It is difficult to say. Because the European Council [GHM note: Council of Europe] and the UN have both recommended Greece change its behavior, but Greece hasn’t done a thing. In fact, it’s worse. We [GHM note: we here means Greece not GHM] don’t change anything because we don’t have to fear anything. There are no sanctions against Greece, except for the European Court for Human Rights where we have lost cases, cases that Greece ignores. In this country, if you speak about minorities, you are asking for trouble. This will stay the way it is, until Greece is faced with sanctions.

Do you personally have problems?

– Well, there is a case against me, for high treason because I spoke about the Macedonian minority. I met the prosecutor, gave my statement. I am facing life in prison if convicted. I am hoping my case won’t get to that point, but I have to admit, this is not pleasant for me, at all. Vinozito (Rainbow) is facing similar actions, when a Radical Right Wing [GHM note: Extreme Right Wing – i.e. LAOS] party in Parliament asked to press for high treason charges against them. Our Justice Minister accepted the request, which is now being forwarded to the Prosecutor. (Interview translated from Dnevnik)

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54 Comments

  1. September 23, 2008    

    Well, for an issue of such a high “wtf” value, the available information is surprisingly low. The *only* pertinent information I have been able to find so far is this single paragraph, the rest being largely irrelevant:

    Do you personally have problems?

    – Well, there is a case against me, for high treason because I spoke about the Macedonian minority. I met the prosecutor, gave my statement. I am facing life in prison if convicted. I am hoping my case won’t get to that point, but I have to admit, this is not pleasant for me, at all. Vinozito (Rainbow) is facing similar actions, when a Radical Right Wing [GHM note: Extreme Right Wing – i.e. LAOS] party in Parliament asked to press for high treason charges against them. Our Justice Minister accepted the request, which is now being forwarded to the Prosecutor.

    Please, people, release more information about this. If the Justice Minister decided to do GHM a favor and boost its publicity so much, then the GHM should be taking advantage of the situation. We need to know who was the representative of “LAOS” who brought the issue up in the parliament, (in a level of detail down to the reference to the records of the House,) we need to know the exact words they said, we need to know exactly what the response of the Justice Minister was, we need to know the exact content of the case that has been filed, (I suppose there must be something, if Panayotis was called to make a statement,) we need to know E V E R Y T H I N G, and it should all be on the first page of the GHM. I am disappointed. I would like to cross-post on my blog, but the issue must first have more qualities that pertain to news items and fewer qualities that pertain to rumours.

    ???????? (Diagoras)s last blog post..One of the nicest TEDtalks I’ve seen

  2. September 23, 2008    

    Thanks for the support.

    The info IS in our website not only in the form of the interview but before that in an OMCT appeal which also includes harassment of other minority rights activists. See

    Greece: New acts of harassment against GHM’s and OMCT’s Panayote Dimitras
    World Organisation Against Torture (OMCT)
    17 September 2008
    http://cm.greekhelsinki.gr/index.php?sec=194&cid=3339

    Before there was

    Greece: Ongoing acts of harassment against Greek Helsinki Monitor
    World Organisation Against Torture (OMCT)
    3 September 2008
    http://cm.greekhelsinki.gr/index.php?sec=194&cid=3336

    OMCT’s work is based on our very detailed report

    Greece: Harassment, defamation and prosecution of minority rights defenders
    Greek Helsinki Monitor (GHM)
    17 August 2008
    http://cm.greekhelsinki.gr/index.php?sec=194&cid=3331

    If I may comment, what made the difference is the journalistic title in the post above based on a journalistic piece, as opposed to the more technical titles in the NGO releases.

  3. September 23, 2008    

    I am sorry, Panayote, but there appears to be some kind of technical problem. All of the links that you gave take to a mostly blank page which simply says “For news in English about human rights in Greece please click here”, and clicking there takes to a page with your general news. I use Firefox, but I also tried with MSIE7 just in case.

    ???????? (Diagoras)s last blog post..One of the nicest TEDtalks I’ve seen

  4. September 23, 2008    

    I am really sorry Diagoras but I just clicked on one and it led me straight to the respective release.

    IN any case from the general page you can see the titles of the three releases and go there.

    Sorry again!

  5. September 23, 2008    

    Ok, I tried again now and the links appear to work. o_O Thanks!

    ???????? (Diagoras)s last blog post..One of the nicest TEDtalks I’ve seen

  6. Xenos
    September 24, 2008    

    DD: This is not Europe, it is Greece. Anyone who knows the true history of the oppression of ethnic minorities in Greece can understand that Greece does not belong in Europe unless its leaders and population abandon their Balkan mentality. There is no more to say.

  7. Gus kanellopoulos
    September 24, 2008    

    After the rape of the Hellenic civilization by Christianity the world fell into Darkness we are slowly emerging from that darkness. I would like to thank the floods and earthquakes that buried the artifacts so deep time could not touch them.
    Close off the Greek Borders and charge a ticket for entry to non Europeans.
    “Earth proudly wears the Parthenon as the best gem upon her zone”
    RWE.
    Now theres no more to say….

  8. Nemesist
    September 24, 2008    

    DD: This is not Europe, it is Greece. Anyone who knows the true history of the oppression of ethnic minorities in Greece can understand that Greece does not belong in Europe unless its leaders and population abandon their Balkan mentality. There is no more to say.

    I would suggest that suspicious foreigners like you, abandon my country. You are in no position to preach to people who have many thousands of years of history behind them. Why don’t you go for fishing instead, fisherman?

  9. Xenos
    September 24, 2008    

    I’d like to see the Greeks of today build a Parthenon. The rush for money-grabbing, nobody actually doing any work, political fighting, dozens of TV channels with 10 people screaming abuse at each other simultaneously: these are what constitutes modern Greece. The Parthenon? forget it, it was built by a different people.

  10. September 24, 2008    

    I wrote about this on my blog and Nowpublic.com

    http://www.nowpublic.com/world/greek-human-rights-activist-accused-high-treason-0

    In addition i submitted the story to the Guardian weekly and sent off a few emails to journalists i know.

    Craigs last blog post..Greek human rights activist accused of high treason

  11. Nemesist
    September 24, 2008    

    I’d like to see the Greeks of today build a Parthenon. The rush for money-grabbing, nobody actually doing any work, political fighting, dozens of TV channels with 10 people screaming abuse at each other simultaneously: these are what constitutes modern Greece. The Parthenon? forget it, it was built by a different people.

    Oh, how much pleasure do non-Greeks get, when discrediting and disengaging modern Greeks from their history.

    Damn jealousy, it’s a very persistent feeling. It is almost an instinct. Hell, even the great Nietzsche felt it, why shouldn’t others have it too?

    Listen xene, if you re sooo interested in the betterment of modern Greek society, like all of you ‘human rights’ posters in here, including the owner of the blog supposedly are, why are you discussing historical issues that are of no relevance to the problems of modern Greek society? Can’t you get it? Even if modern Greeks reach the lowest possible levels in the world in economy, corruption, in-fighting or whatever else you want, still we will always be the closest people to the ancient Greeks, our forefathers. The Parthenon? Lol, what could YOU possibly see by looking at the Parthenon, xene? You can’t UNDERSTAND the Parthenon, you ll never will, it is simply not compatible with you. It’s ok though, don’t feel inferior or left out, you can always visit Stonehedge and be amazed by its architecture. Muhahaha

    So, again, if you got any proposals for modern Greek society, let’s hear them, otherwise you and the other xenoi in here are simply evil foreign spies with a plan to destroy us all, untill proven otherwise. This is the way people see you, and threaten you, when you express opinions like that in this country, and rightly so.

  12. db0
    September 24, 2008    

    What is there to understand about Parthenon? Certainly nothing for a Greek Orthodox like the vast majority of modern Greeks.

    After all, it was the Christians who destroyed all the ancient monuments.

    The foreigners have much more in common to the ancient greeks than the modern greeks do. The foreigners got the wisdom and knowledge of them and put it to good use, while the modern greeks Got…the name.

  13. Xenos
    September 24, 2008    

    I once had the privilege of being given a personal guided tour of the Parthenon, by one of the world’s leading authorities. She happened to be employed by the British Museum, and is also British. I do not think any Greek has even a fraction of her understanding of this monument, so what exactly are you talking about? (Please don’t start talking about the Elgin Marbles here: it is not relevant)

    To return to the topic of this post: it is one thing to be proud of one’s heritage (even if the claim is dubious): it is another to use it as an excuse for barbarism and abuse of minorities’ human rights. We have an obligation to ourselves to build upon the past, for a better future: those who parade their history as an excuse for laziness and incompetence will soon discover that they have no future.

  14. Nemesist
    September 24, 2008    

    What is there to understand about Parthenon?

    I m sure there is nothing for YOU to understand, firestuff spinner. There is more meaning to Star Wars, right? LoL

    After all, it was the Christians who destroyed all the ancient monuments.

    Obviously.

    The foreigners have much more in common to the ancient greeks than the modern greeks do.

    Well, the above statement may be true for individuals of unknown and possibly mixed ancestry and confused and degenerated mental functioning, like YOU.

    The foreigners got the wisdom and knowledge of them and put it to good use, while the modern greeks Got…the name.

    Yes, bow to your foreign masters, let us not forget they have created epic fantasy horsesh*t like ..Star Wars, a sequel that brings great enthusiasm to the noboy generation inside borderless capitalism that you belong you.

    Yes, the foreigners did STEAL ancient wisdom and knowledge, alongside with anything material they could lay their hands upon, from Greece. And then, the savage thief became a dedicated student. How nice. It is a case of teacher vs student. The student always wants to surpass the master. Sometimes even kill the master.

    I sure hope you don’t still live in this country, and you have moved elsewhere, where you can express your gratitude to foreigners in a better way, ok my little computer hero?

  15. Nemesist
    September 24, 2008    

    I once had the privilege of being given a personal guided tour of the Parthenon, by one of the world’s leading authorities. She happened to be employed by the British Museum, and is also British. I do not think any Greek has even a fraction of her understanding of this monument, so what exactly are you talking about? (Please don’t start talking about the Elgin Marbles here: it is not relevant)

    Haha, a British cow gives a tour of the Parthenon to a foreigner. It makes my stomach turn. And she is employed by the British Museum of World Looting, how touching! Lol.

    Let me tell you something, even the poorest, oldest, Greek illiterate goatherd’s gaze on the Parthenon, is infinitely more valuable then the British “authority’s” endless ramblings. Sorry foreigner, we re Greek, you re not. Ok xene? What about Stonehedge? Why don’t you consider visiting there? There are always the museums of medieval torture devices in London where you can celebrate your amazing heritage, if my first suggestion sounds boring.

    To return to the topic of this post: it is one thing to be proud of one’s heritage (even if the claim is dubious): it is another to use it as an excuse for barbarism and abuse of minorities’ human rights. We have an obligation to ourselves to build upon the past, for a better future: those who parade their history as an excuse for laziness and incompetence will soon discover that they have no future.

    You keep repeating the same things, are you a brainwashing experiment or something? Minorities are minorities, groups always exist within groups in every society, if the don’t cause problems and if the OFFER something to the community, no one sane would want their harm. WHATtf is it you don’t understand. In our case then, the Roma have NEVER offered anything to Greek society, on the contrary are actually or allegedly causing problems. You know the word ‘Logic’? There is a whole science of Logic, we only need the basic principles to discuss this matter.

    As for the future, there is no future in this kind of world your western nations have created. So, if there is no future, the present must be destroyed to create a different chance for a future worth living in. Creation through Destruction.

  16. db0
    September 24, 2008    

    I m sure there is nothing for YOU to understand, firestuff spinner.

    Why don’t you enlighten us then?

    Well, the above statement may be true for individuals of unknown and possibly mixed ancestry and confused and degenerated mental functioning, like YOU.

    Ah, so those would be only the purebred Greeks who somehow managed to avoid intermixing in those 400 years of Ottoman rule, 800 years of Byzantine rule and 700 years of Roman rule? Makes sense.

    Yes, the foreigners did STEAL ancient wisdom and knowledge, alongside with anything material they could lay their hands upon, from Greece. And then, the savage thief became a dedicated student. How nice. It is a case of teacher vs student. The student always wants to surpass the master. Sometimes even kill the master.

    Wow, you really do need professional psychological help.

    PS: How is it possible for someone to steal wisdom and knowledge? Or are you a proponent of Intellectual Property, a very capitalistic concept?

    I sure hope you don’t still live in this country, and you have moved elsewhere, where you can express your gratitude to foreigners in a better way, ok my little computer hero?

    What? You mean you can’t say from stalking me online a bit more? I’m disappointed.

    db0s last blog post..Medieval Pics

  17. Nemesist
    September 24, 2008    

    Why don’t you enlighten us then?

    Because i don’t think you are worth it.

    Ah, so those would be only the purebred Greeks who somehow managed to avoid intermixing in those 400 years of Ottoman rule, 800 years of Byzantine rule and 700 years of Roman rule? Makes sense.

    That’s right. The ‘mixtures’ that took place are cultural ones.

    Wow, you really do need professional psychological help.

    Unfortunately i can’t afford it. Hahahahahahahaha

    PS: How is it possible for someone to steal wisdom and knowledge? Or are you a proponent of Intellectual Property, a very capitalistic concept?

    By stealing manuscripts of course. How stupid are you trying to be? All those were stolen during wars and conquests. To link them to modern day ‘intellectual property’, shows your level of despair at trying to get back at me. Not very succesfull.

    What? You mean you can’t say from stalking me online a bit more? I’m disappointed.

    You ‘re not that important i m afraid. However, you too CAN become famous if you join Circo Medrano.

  18. September 24, 2008    

    Nemesist, your rude and insulting language and comments are not doing you any favours. If you have a point, please make it without the childish words. There is one positive side effect though. This post is getting more attention and therefore more people are taking note of what is happening to Panayote Dimitras.

  19. Nemesist
    September 25, 2008    

    Nemesist, your rude and insulting language and comments are not doing you any favours. If you have a point, please make it without the childish words. There is one positive side effect though. This post is getting more attention and therefore more people are taking note of what is happening to Panayote Dimitras.

    I ve already made several points, i m surprised you didn’t grasp them yet, maybe you should read my posts more carefully. As for my language, i am simply using one, compatible with the level of your guests.

  20. Nemesist
    September 25, 2008    

    As for Dimitras, well, i never saw him fighting for the rights of GREEK MINORITIES in our neighboring countries. If he is such a human rights activist, first he should speak for his country’s minorities, THEN for other countries’ minorities too. I would have no problem then.

    Of course, since the majority of Greek people and the official Greek government DO NOT recognize the existence of ethnic ‘Macedonians’ or a ‘Macedonian’ nation outside or inside of Greece, and especially in some slavic (!) population, going against that and struggling to prove the existence of such a minority, is of course TREASON. If it was a time of war, we all know how treason is dealt, in times of peace, life imprisonment is ok. Maybe after a condemning court decision, Dimitras will finally learn it is not very wise to play with and mock the Greek people’s age-old collective unconscious…

  21. Xenos
    September 25, 2008    

    The shameless arrogance of Greeks is well-known to the world, so your posts are all in the style we expect of Balkan nationalists, Nemesist. Telling us to read your posts more carefully: hahahah, such a joke! And then insulting everyone here, by stating that the childish remarks you make are for our own lower level of comprehension!!

    Of course, this is Greece — where arrogance and criminality are rewarded, whereas serious hardworking people are thought to be idiots.

    To return to your last substantive point: we don’t care what ignorant peasants think about minorities. In fact, many of the minorities are also ignorant peasants, too. The real issue is whether or not Greece is a liberal democracy which is entitled to remain in the civilised world. My opinion is that it belongs in the Middle East, since you share none of our European values.

    Go join up with Turkey, Iraq, Iran etc. where the people think like Greeks. Human rights? No, none of those, thank you. Minorities? No, we don’t believe in them. That is where Greeks belong, not in Europe.

  22. George
    September 25, 2008    

    I doubt Nemesist is really Greek. His use of English indicate a foreign (American, Canadian) education. I believe he’s probably living safe in the USA thousands of miles away from Greece spouting the same nonsense that his grandparents used to say when they emigrated as an IMMIGRANT to the USA/Canada. I’m sure Diva can check his IP to verify that.

  23. db0
    September 25, 2008    

    I doubt Nemesist is really Greek. His use of English indicate a foreign (American, Canadian) education. I believe he’s probably living safe in the USA thousands of miles away from Greece spouting the same nonsense that his grandparents used to say when they emigrated as an IMMIGRANT to the USA/Canada. I’m sure Diva can check his IP to verify that.

    That’s an interesting take. I’d be curious to know if this might be true.

    Unfortunately this little deluded (undoubtedly) teenager’s mentality is an all too common phenomenon lately in Greece but fortunately not all of us are like this. It is only sad that petty nationalism is getting so much traction.

    I, unfortunately, have to agree with Xenos that Greece is not very “European” but on the other hand, Greece is a developing (or is it undeveloping?) nation. Accusing the greeks of being too backward is like accusing the Poles of being too Catholic.
    At least being part of Europe helps some of us escape.

    db0s last blog post..Quote of the Day: Past and Future

  24. September 25, 2008    

    As for Dimitras, well, i never saw him fighting for the rights of GREEK MINORITIES in our neighboring countries. If he is such a human rights activist, first he should speak for his country’s minorities, THEN for other countries’ minorities too. I would have no problem then.

    1. Nemesist is probably “blind” since he never saw us advocating the rights of Greek minorities in neighboring countries. If s/he could “see” in the webpages below one can find that things are otherwise:

    http://cm.greekhelsinki.gr/index.php?sec=194&ctg=228
    http://cm.greekhelsinki.gr/index.php?sec=192&ctg=294
    http://cm.greekhelsinki.gr/index.php?sec=192&ctg=276
    http://www.greekhelsinki.gr/bhr/greek/special_issues/himara.html
    http://www.greekhelsinki.gr/Special-issues-Greek-Minorities-in-Balkans.html

    and especially these two overall texts:

    http://www.greekhelsinki.gr/pdf/ghm-greeks-albanians.PDF
    http://www.aimpress.org/dyn/trae/archive/data/200002/00201-001-trae-ath.htm

    2. S/he also probably does not even know the borders of Greece. Otherwise s/he would not have criticized me for not fighting first for Greece’s minorities; it is indeed the minorities in Greece that we fight for first. The Greek minorities in the neighboring countries do not belong to this country but to the other countries.

    Of course, since the majority of Greek people and the official Greek government DO NOT recognize the existence of ethnic ‘Macedonians’ or a ‘Macedonian’ nation outside or inside of Greece, and especially in some slavic (!) population, going against that and struggling to prove the existence of such a minority, is of course TREASON. If it was a time of war, we all know how treason is dealt, in times of peace, life imprisonment is ok. Maybe after a condemning court decision, Dimitras will finally learn it is not very wise to play with and mock the Greek people’s age-old collective unconscious…

    3. I first of all thing that there is no collective unconscious among Greeks… But in any case, in democracies -that Nemesist does not believe in- people are free to advocate their views without harassment. In this particular instance, I will once again remind everyone without providing the quoted texts again (DD may search and find them in another post) that the existence of a Macedonian minority is acknowledged by the UN and Council of Europe bodies (including the European Court of Human Rights) when they interpret the international treaties that Greece has ratified and is violating, as these bodies are saying. Anyone who wants life imprisonment for whomever interprets international and Greek law correctly and points to its violations obviously does not agree with that law or with democracy. Such views are held by Plevris father and son, Georgiadis, Vellopoulos, Eleftheros Kosmos, Stohos, and the other LAOS affiliates as well as Chrysi Avghi. And I believe that Nemesist belongs to that world, whose mentor Kostas Plevris clearly states that he does not believe in democracy.

  25. September 25, 2008    

    Nemesist is not unusual but he is not typical of all Greeks. There have been many like him here before but they are usually Greeks living OUTSIDE the country. Most of the Greeks that I have had the pleasure of meeting through this blog have been highly intelligent, polite and eloquent about the problems in their country. The ability to understand that criticism of aspects of a country is not a personal attack seems to be difficult for some people to grasp.

    And no Nemesist, you have insulted everyone here with your use of words and you have done it deliberately to provoke. And people have reacted your insults. Look back over your comments and see yourself.

    As for Dimitras, well, i never saw him fighting for the rights of GREEK MINORITIES in our neighboring countries. If he is such a human rights activist, first he should speak for his country’s minorities, THEN for other countries’ minorities too. I would have no problem then.

    How much do you think one person can do ? I care about human rights globally but I CANNOT possibly cover everything in one blog so I choose to focus. Panayote Dimitras doesn’t have any more hours in the day than you or I do. This is another pointless argument that has popped up so many times here. People specialise. They cannot possibly be experts in everything.

    As for the high treason charge (which was the original point of the post), denying the existence of minorities does not make it so. I don’t know if you actually went and read the articles linked in the post (http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/74968 and http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/3525/46/) but not everyone thinks like you. There are people who are questioning the official stand that there are no minorities in Greece. That they should be threatened with a high treason charge in this day and age, in Europe (I know people have differing views on that membership !) is absurd to say the least.

  26. September 25, 2008    

    I would like to say that this morning I posted a message with several links and answers to some unfounded comments here -that required a lot of time to prepare- and I do not see it

    Sorry I have no time to do it again. I hope DD will uncover it somewhere.

  27. September 25, 2008    

    Sorry Panayote. Your post got labeled as spam again. Technology is wonderful but it breaks from time to time. No time to respond today but I will look up some of those texts when I do. Thanks for your posting.

  28. Nemesist
    September 25, 2008    

    The shameless arrogance of Greeks is well-known to the world, so your posts are all in the style we expect of Balkan nationalists, Nemesist. Telling us to read your posts more carefully: hahahah, such a joke! And then insulting everyone here, by stating that the childish remarks you make are for our own lower level of comprehension!!

    Maybe you should read my posts more carefully, foreigner.

    Of course, this is Greece — where arrogance and criminality are rewarded, whereas serious hardworking people are thought to be idiots.

    This is the first worthy sentence you wrote in here. What you DONT mention, is that western capitalism has turned Greeks that way. Yes, exported from YOUR country, you little money-lover. Where are you from, the UK or the US?

    To return to your last substantive point: we don’t care what ignorant peasants think about minorities. In fact, many of the minorities are also ignorant peasants, too. The real issue is whether or not Greece is a liberal democracy which is entitled to remain in the civilised world. My opinion is that it belongs in the Middle East, since you share none of our European values.

    How many times do i have to repeat it? Even an 80 year old blind illiterate Greek goatherd’s opinion on anything relating to Greece, is infinitely more valuable than anything YOU have to say. Can’t you get that inside your thick barbarian skull?

    The real issue, is whether Greece can become a multicultural multiracial wasteland with no state power, a fertile ground for the western multinational corporation to lay their blood soaked hands on. Yes, we know these are the vultures you represent, foreigner. Your “opinion” shows that your suspicious goals are to label Greeks as “arabs” =”terrorists”. You ve been exposed you dirty little spy.

  29. Nemesist
    September 25, 2008    

    I doubt Nemesist is really Greek. His use of English indicate a foreign (American, Canadian) education. I believe he’s probably living safe in the USA thousands of miles away from Greece spouting the same nonsense that his grandparents used to say when they emigrated as an IMMIGRANT to the USA/Canada. I’m sure Diva can check his IP to verify that.

    So, in this blog, Greeks are not even thought capable of learning sufficiently this poor english language.

    Why don’t you check up with ‘Diva’ then, let me know what she tells you about my IP.

  30. Nemesist
    September 25, 2008    

    I, unfortunately, have to agree with Xenos that Greece is not very “European” but on the other hand, Greece is a developing (or is it undeveloping?) nation. Accusing the greeks of being too backward is like accusing the Poles of being too Catholic.
    At least being part of Europe helps some of us escape.

    What is this? Do i detect at least “some” signs of self-respect? Naaa, just my idea.. what a shame that you were born in this country. Go on, run away, kota. Don’t forget to apologize again for your inherent “backwardness”..

  31. Nemesist
    September 25, 2008    

    As for mr Dimitras, what can i say. His motives are a riddle to me. Only a psychiatrist would probably be able to interpret this “anti-racism” complex that probably his father’s past created to him.

    But, mr Dimitra, you say you believe in Democracy. Democracy means rule of the majority, RIGHT? When the majority of the Greek people DENY the existence of a Macedonian nation or a Macedonian ethnic identity in slavic populations, not to mention the OFFICIAL GOVERNMENT POSITION that is the same with the people’s majority, WHY CAN’T YOU RESPECT THAT? Don’t you respect DEMOCRACY? Aren’t you a part of that people? OR maybe you take orders from other NON-DEMOCRATIC authorities outside of this people and this government? I d like to read your answer to that, ??????? ‘?????????’.

  32. db0
    September 26, 2008    

    But, mr Dimitra, you say you believe in Democracy. Democracy means rule of the majority, RIGHT?

    Funny that. Greece, like most other Developed countries, does not have a Democracy but rather a Constitutional Republic. Look it up

    So no my little backward Greek. You do not have the right to deny any rights.

    But please, stop posting, you’re doing more harm to the image of Greece and Greeks than good. It’s because of people like you that Greece is not going anywhere.

  33. September 26, 2008    

    The “majority rule” is often described as a characteristic feature of democracy, but without responsible government it is possible for the rights of a minority to be abused by the “tyranny of the majority”.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy

  34. Nemesist
    September 26, 2008    

    Funny that. Greece, like most other Developed countries, does not have a Democracy but rather a Constitutional Republic. Look it up

    You re supposed to be clever now with this “intelligent remark”? Developed countries are ruled by an economic dictatorship (cabal), while pretending they have a constitutional parliamentary “democracy”. The word “democracy” has degenerated in the mouths and writings of non-Greeks, the minute it left indigenous Greek soil. But it is people like YOU and the others in here that try to preach PLUTOCRACY, especially in its western obscene form, as “DEMOCRACY” and would like it to be imposed all over the planet. That is why you represent HYPOCRISY, while i represent HONESTY. You get it now, circus man?

    So no my little backward Greek. You do not have the right to deny any rights.

    I don’t deny any rights. First of all i want to guard my own rights.

    But please, stop posting, you’re doing more harm to the image of Greece and Greeks than good. It’s because of people like you that Greece is not going anywhere.

    It’s because of people like me that Greece is still called that today, little mammal?

  35. September 27, 2008    

    yesterday at 3pm I posted something that was spammed out again probably because of the link

    so here is the text and in the next pots I will put the link in the hope that I wont be “censored”

    The “majority rule” is often described as a characteristic feature of democracy, but without responsible government it is possible for the rights of a minority to be abused by the “tyranny of the majority”.

  36. September 27, 2008    
  37. September 27, 2008    

    ok the link was the problem as I dont see it here

    so go to English wikipedia and search for democracy – this is the source of the text above

    DD erase the spammed out messages

  38. Xenos
    September 27, 2008    

    A basic feature of constitutional democracies is that, even though the election of a government is by some sort of majority voting, the State (as opposed to the government) upholds the rights of minorities. This includes ethnic, religious, political and other minorities — although it varies widely from country to country.

    In Greece, people seem to think that the State is the same as the government. Indeed, it effectively is, as the State in Greece hardly functions, and certainly does nothing to uphold anyone’s rights. Thus, the courts and public prosecutors find it quite normal to take instructions from the government of the day. Even the Pakistani courts objected to this Third World mentality, but here in Greece people are quite happy with it.

    In fact, we could even say that the mentality of the Greek population is more backward than most of the Third World. This is the result of nationalistic propaganda throughout the education system and across the mass media. Is Greece a democracy? Superficially, by holding elections in a suitable manner, it might look like one. In terms of constitutional protection and general behaviour to those without political or economic power, it is another Zimbabwe.

  39. Nemesist
    September 28, 2008    

    The “majority rule” is often described as a characteristic feature of democracy, but without responsible government it is possible for the rights of a minority to be abused by the “tyranny of the majority”.

    Mr. Dimitras, you are either a democrat or not a democrat. Are you? If yes, you should RESPECT the majority’s will. But of course you are nothing of the sort, you are someone who suspiciously and treasonously stands up for every possible enemy of the Greeks. So, since you believe you know best, i guess you are an aristocrat, or an oligarchy fan, believing that those who ‘know best’ should rule despite the majority’s decisions. What a circus of an opinion you have. That is why i said that you people represent HYPOCRISY while i represent HONESTY. And you guide me in learning what ‘democracy’ means from …wikipedia????? LOL, what a bad bad joke, this is black humor! Democracy, which was only ever practiced in classical Athens, AMONG THE RULING GROUP OF CITIZENS(not everyone), is now taught by mr Dimitras, through wikipedia! In wikipedia, i will go if i want to read about the modern form of conceived plutocracy that is labeled ‘parliamentary democracy’. I wonder, do all these super-democrats in here have any idea who your father was? Just curious..

    A basic feature of constitutional democracies is that, even though the election of a government is by some sort of majority voting, the State (as opposed to the government) upholds the rights of minorities. This includes ethnic, religious, political and other minorities — although it varies widely from country to country.

    The rights of any minority, depend on their relations and offering to the majority’s social norms and to the threat or lackthereof that this minority may pose to the majority population. Lol, i ended up defending ‘democracy’ in this blog, from you ‘super-democrats’.

    In Greece, people seem to think that the State is the same as the government. Indeed, it effectively is, as the State in Greece hardly functions, and certainly does nothing to uphold anyone’s rights. Thus, the courts and public prosecutors find it quite normal to take instructions from the government of the day. Even the Pakistani courts objected to this Third World mentality, but here in Greece people are quite happy with it.

    Come on, admit it, you don’t have ANY idea what Greeks REALLY think. You simply cannot understand us. There is no State, there is no Government, there is only the Greek people here. Get it? With their goods and bads as a people, of course..

    In fact, we could even say that the mentality of the Greek population is more backward than most of the Third World. This is the result of nationalistic propaganda throughout the education system and across the mass media. Is Greece a democracy? Superficially, by holding elections in a suitable manner, it might look like one. In terms of constitutional protection and general behaviour to those without political or economic power, it is another Zimbabwe.

    I believe you are wrong, the mentality of the Greek population is such because of our natural superiority as human beings. Is Greece a ‘democracy’? LOL. Greece, is something you can’t grasp, simple as that. As for Zimbabwe, i bet it is a nice place, if you take out the epidemics that probably exist there. But even WITH the epidemics, i bet people there are more honest and true than the ones from where you re coming from, foreigner.

    Nemesist is not unusual but he is not typical of all Greeks. There have been many like him here before but they are usually Greeks living OUTSIDE the country. Most of the Greeks that I have had the pleasure of meeting through this blog have been highly intelligent, polite and eloquent about the problems in their country. The ability to understand that criticism of aspects of a country is not a personal attack seems to be difficult for some people to grasp.

    Well, you also have statistics on us, ms Diva, on how many of us are polite or impolite? The ability to understand that criticism of aspects of a country is not a personal attack is irrelevant to the fact that foreigners have no right whatsoever in making criticism of any aspect of this country, especially when all you do in here is slander and spit on the Greek mentality and culture.

    And no Nemesist, you have insulted everyone here with your use of words and you have done it deliberately to provoke. And people have reacted your insults. Look back over your comments and see yourself.

    Does that mean i don’t get desert after lunch? (i saw this in a movie, see, the West is educating us all third-worlders pretty well, rofl)

    As for the high treason charge (which was the original point of the post), denying the existence of minorities does not make it so. I don’t know if you actually went and read the articles linked in the post (http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/74968 and http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/3525/46/) but not everyone thinks like you. There are people who are questioning the official stand that there are no minorities in Greece. That they should be threatened with a high treason charge in this day and age, in Europe (I know people have differing views on that membership !) is absurd to say the least.

    As i said, minorities are judged by what they constitute. For example, a minority of a few thousand japanese people, who evidently run honest businesses like restaurants for example, would not bother me. A minority of people originating from a neighboring country, which is in terms of diplomatic war with Greece and which has been in actual war with us in the past, is not tolerated. Can’t you grasp this simple simple point? But what i am saying, you ve written a whole saga on the worthless Roma, who simply DONT WANT TO JOIN IN ANY ASPECT OF THIS COUNTRY’S SOCIETY!

    And lastly Ms Diva, what is going on, you are ‘allowing’ me to comment freely in your super-democratic but dictatorist in moderation blog? I m surprised. What is it, is it the weather perhaps? Winter is on its way and you remembered your country’s permanent winter-like weather, thus you are being more positive towards the enemy? Or maybe, you kinda like me especially? Well, maybe i can buy you a coffee & souvlaki, to show you what a friendly and caring individual i actually am 😉 lol

  40. Xenos
    September 28, 2008    

    Xenos collapses in uncontrollable laughter at the claim of Greeks’ “natural superiority as human beings” and wonders why they are so stupid.

  41. September 28, 2008    

    Mr. Dimitras, you are either a democrat or not a democrat. Are you? If yes, you should RESPECT the majority’s will. But of course you are nothing of the sort, you are someone who suspiciously and treasonously stands up for every possible enemy of the Greeks. So, since you believe you know best, i guess you are an aristocrat, or an oligarchy fan, believing that those who ‘know best’ should rule despite the majority’s decisions. What a circus of an opinion you have. That is why i said that you people represent HYPOCRISY while i represent HONESTY. And you guide me in learning what ‘democracy’ means from …wikipedia????? LOL, what a bad bad joke, this is black humor! Democracy, which was only ever practiced in classical Athens, AMONG THE RULING GROUP OF CITIZENS(not everyone), is now taught by mr Dimitras, through wikipedia! In wikipedia, i will go if i want to read about the modern form of conceived plutocracy that is labeled ‘parliamentary democracy’. I wonder, do all these super-democrats in here have any idea who your father was? Just curious..

    You write like Hitler admirer Plevris and Eleftheros Kosmos – so I am honored that you would say that and would have been disgraced if you had praised me :)

  42. September 28, 2008    

    And lastly Ms Diva, what is going on, you are ‘allowing’ me to comment freely in your super-democratic but dictatorist in moderation blog? I m surprised. What is it, is it the weather perhaps? Winter is on its way and you remembered your country’s permanent winter-like weather, thus you are being more positive towards the enemy? Or maybe, you kinda like me especially? Well, maybe i can buy you a coffee & souvlaki, to show you what a friendly and caring individual i actually am lol

    Don’t be so paranoid. My blog is on moderation when I am not around to check up on it. And I’ll pass on the coffee…

  43. Nemesist
    September 28, 2008    

    Don’t be so paranoid. My blog is on moderation when I am not around to check up on it. And I’ll pass on the coffee…

    ..but you ll keep the souvlaki?

    Xenos collapses in uncontrollable laughter at the claim of Greeks’ “natural superiority as human beings” and wonders why they are so stupid.

    So, little shameless monkey foreigner, you are saying that all Greeks are ‘stupid’.

    You write like Hitler admirer Plevris and Eleftheros Kosmos – so I am honored that you would say that and would have been disgraced if you had praised me

    Yeah yeah, you didn’t answer any of my questions though, how could you possibly do that…

  44. db0
    September 28, 2008    

    Yeah yeah, you didn’t answer any of my questions though, how could you possibly do that…

    How could anyone possibly answer you stunning display of ignorance on what Democracy is, what minorities deserve and your borderline Nazism. Just go back to your cave with the rest of the Golden Dawn buddies.

  45. September 28, 2008    

    I think our national socilalist buddy, Nemisist has a little too much time on his hands. Thankfully, for the rest of us his particular brand vitriol was decisively defeated both militarily and ideologically in the bunkers of Berlin in 1945.

    Craigs last blog post..Nighty, nighty

  46. Nemesist
    September 28, 2008    

    How could anyone possibly answer you stunning display of ignorance on what Democracy is, what minorities deserve and your borderline Nazism. Just go back to your cave with the rest of the Golden Dawn buddies.

    When everything else fails, the last resort is to call me a ‘Nazi’… lol

    I don’t eat souvlaki, so no thanks.

    How about gyro then? rofl

    I think our national socilalist buddy, Nemisist has a little too much time on his hands. Thankfully, for the rest of us his particular brand vitriol was decisively defeated both militarily and ideologically in the bunkers of Berlin in 1945.

    You forget that you re talking with a Greek here, foreigner, whose ancestors fought against the Axis, due to their country’s stance in the 2nd War, not to much effect though for our country’s benefit, although we ended up with the victorious party. So you should realize this ‘bunkers of Berlin’ little story doesn’t mean anything to me..

  47. db0
    September 28, 2008    

    Nothing else has failed.

    It is of course unfortunate that a country which was a staunch opponent of fascism and nazism breeds such supporters of it now. It’s just funny that they don’t even realize what you’ve become and what values you’re promoting.

    It’s especially funny that you thought it was Stalin who was persecuting Gays, Roma and Jews…

    db0s last blog post..Last.fm activity now in Complexlife

  48. September 28, 2008    

    I don’t eat souvlaki, so no thanks.

  49. Oath Taken
    September 28, 2008    

    Just in case DD’s “spam” filter lets this through:

    The whole discussion has been hijacked well beyond the original inflammatory thesis.

    A few points – especially for that “Teacher Dude” who’s trying to get my favorite broadsheet to come up with yet another half-cooked article about Greece after the Corfu fiasco.

    a) Mr. Dimitras in his hurry to capitalize on the Plevris family instigated investigations into his activity came up with the wrong charges and hence the wrong penalty as well:
    1) High Treason “?????? ????????” refers to overthrowing the government. I know it sounds more impressive but that does not give Mr. Dimitras the right to claim he is being accused of High Treason. It is covered by articles 134-137 of the Greek Penal code and the Plevris accusations were regarding article 138.
    2) What he is being investigated on is Treason against the State or plainly “Treason” that is covered by articles 138-152 of the Greek Penal Code. In fact the Plevris family (despite being lawyers) were so blinded in their personal vendetta against Mr. Dimitras (for his persecution of that nazi idiot Plevris Sr.) that they suggested his actions fell under article 138. Article 138 (the one that carries a death sentence in the original wording that since Greece did away with death sentences now becomes life in prison) covers the use or threat of physical force and cannot in any way apply to GHM’s activities. If one were to disregard issues of freedom of speech one could make an argument for activities that fall under articles 141 (3m-3y sentence) or (even with an further stretch of the imagination) 146-147 (3y-10y at most) or (with a huge stretch of the imagination) 135 together with 138 (virtually impossible to prove and still not carrying a life sentence).
    3) Even if the charge was under article 138 alone and Mr. Dimitras was involved in an armed insurrection against the Greek government aiming at the dismemberment of the country (as the NOF fighters from the Civil War he reprints sob stories about from time to time) historical precedent shows us that in the vast majority of cases the maximum penalty (life in prison now – death penalty in the 1940s) was rarely applied – most captured communist guerrilas served a prison sentence in one of the infamous penal colonies and eventually were set free (in a pre-junta Greece no less).

    So having established that the charge is not correct and the penalty is not correct either and even if it were correct it is unlikely it would have been ever applied we can only assume that as he does on a regular basis Mr. Dimitras chose to over dramatize his troubles to further defame the country that he is unfortunately – for the country and himself – a citizen of. Of course the origin of the defamation still is the Plevris mentality of not tolerating the voices of the internal enemy – a mentality that harkens back to WWII Europe and a little beyond that and cannot be condemned enough.

    b) Mr. Dimitras is not facing any charges – at least not yet. He is the subject of one (1) judicial investigation and Plevris Jr. has asked for a second one but until now (according to GHM itself) that has not materialized. To claim that he is facing charges would require a formal process that has not happened. I know that Mr. Dimitras and the rest of the gang are praying that someone as stupid as Mr. Sanidas makes sure that the investigation results in an indictment so they can play the martyr card but until that happens (which for reasons of principle as well as practicality I hope not) you cannot truthfully claim he is facing charges and if (for example) the Guardian were to claim it in those words that would be reason to sue it for libel.
    c) The usual suspects of course did not lose the opportunity to spew their bile on the peasants called Greeks and their shithole of a Middle Eastern country. If indeed that were so their asses would not be sitting in the Panteion but would be rotting in a prison or flying out of Greece on the first available flight.
    d) That DD would point to Risto Stefov’s piece and MINA as examples of how people should think shows her true colors. The racist ideas that Stefov has been putting out for many many years and the absurd racism that MINA stands for (I guess DD also subscribes to MINA’s assertion that Karamanlis is 1/3 (!!!!!) “Macedonian”) is so beyond what DD puts out as her principles that it is obvious she only applies them when Greeks are involved. :-) I’m happy to see that Vinozhito has formalized their connection with Stefov (so far seen in common appearances in Canada) by reprinting his article on their site. So much for attacking nationalism – so long as it is Greek of course. ;->

    And just in case DD and the rest of the cohorts want to divert this from the purposeful inaccuracies in the original report to issues of freedom of speech, minority rights etc. let me make clear:
    1) Unpopular speech is to be tolerated in a democratic society. That means that the voices of Mr. Dimitras as well as those of Vinozhito, and even non-citizens such as Xenos and your own DD, should not be allowed to be silenced, just on principle alone. You can spew your anti-Greek venom freely. This BTW also applies to the mental excrement that Plevris, Hrissi Avgi and the like come up with, again within bounds set by law. If the law is too restrictive on free speech it makes heroes out of bastards (on either side) – if it is too lenient it makes a breeding ground for violence. Democracies try and find a balance point with regard to this issue – the current direction taken in Europe is more restrictive than the one taken in the USA for example. Unpopular speech BTW is exactly that – so while it is to respected, any expectation that it not be unpopular is ludicrous. Mr. Dimitras (and DD for that matter) can complain if their right to free speech is being violated but to complain that people see them as their enemies and dislike them for that is beyond childish. That does not stop Mr. Dimitras from regularly doing so in his reports on “attacks on human rights defenders”. As if being a self-appointed human rights defender excludes one from criticism. :-)
    2) I’m pretty certain that I’m not alone among Greeks in thinking that even the judicial investigations into GHM are counterproductive for the Greek state. They stand on a very restrictive interpretation of the boundaries of free speech that is unbecoming and furthermore serve to bolster GHM’s carefully groomed image abroad; in the end even if they were to lead to indictments those would result in acquittals, if not at the 1st stage, then at least on appeal and in the event it ever goes to the ECHR most certainly there. So at the bottom line they only serve to reinforce the propaganda wars against Greece.
    3) If GHM seriously thinks that they can pull the wool over anyone’s eyes by a miniscule amount of reporting on human right problems outside Greece regarding ethnic greek communities they are insulting their own intelligence. It is far more sincere to say that as GHM/MRG they deal with issues of minorities and human rights in Greece, not outside it and when their sister orgs in Albania and FYRoM do deal with issues in Greece (which they do sometimes) they are overstepping their bounds (without criticism from GHM so far BTW).
    4) That GHM is viewed as an enemy of the Greek people not just by the nationalist fringe but by a wider public is not simply attributable to misinformation by the mass media but to their two sets of standards and even more by their collaboration with people with a deep seated hatred of Greeks like Bill Nicholov, a family friend of Mr. Dimitras.
    5) Beyond the unimaginable silliness of the “non-existent” minority crap the Greek government utters there is an actual issue of (a) the legal definition of the term “minority” for the Greek government vs. the term “community”, (b) the _primary_ use of the adjective “Macedonian” and its derivatives, (c) the multiple groups (national, ethnic, linguistic and even simply by ancestry) that minority activists claim as a “Macedonian minority” and (d) a primordial view of ethnicity and nationality espoused by minority activists that would make me a “brainwashed” 1/2 Albanian for example irrespective of how half of my family chose to see itself as. Both the greek state and its opponents (GHM and minority activists among others) are not being sincere on this subject.

  50. September 29, 2008    

    Oath taken said:

    “Mr. Dimitras chose to over dramatize his troubles to further defame the country that he is unfortunately – for the country and himself – a citizen of… GHM is viewed as an enemy of the Greek people not just by the nationalist fringe but by a wider public .” Also “bastards (on either side)” equate the Plevrises with Xenos, DD, and me…

    Again I will say that anyone who does not simply disagree with me or even criticize me but states that “unfortunately – for the country and himself – I am a citizen of Greece … and an enemy of the Greek people and a bastard comparable to Plevris” shows where s/he stands and how his/her criticism must be taken, especially when hidden behind anonymity for someone who has the courage to sign everything with his name.

    Otherwise, on 18 September 2008, before a Three-Member Misdemeanors Court of Athens, the government’s Secretary General for Gender Issues, Ms. Evgenia Tsoumani, was scheduled to go on trial for aggravated defamation by the press of Panayote Dimitras as an individual and as representative of Greek Helsinki Monitor. On 4 March 2007, in an interview to the large circulation “Sunday Eleftherotypia” newspaper, Ms. Tsoumani stated that what was written in GHM’s report to UN CEDAW on the position of Roma and minority women in Greece, especially children marriages and polygamy, “are lies that damage the country internationally.” GHM would like to highlight that Ms. Tsoumani declared that “everything I said in the interview … was done in my institutional capacity as Secretary General for Gender Issues” (emphasis in the original). On 8 July 2008, a Judicial Council referred Ms. Tsoumani to trial with the initial charge, but they also stated that “there is sufficient evidence to support a public charge before a court against defendant Evgenia Tsoumani for the unlawful acts of … breach of duty, false certification, and exposing the state before other countries” (Decision 1921/2008 available in Greek at the web page http://cm.greekhelsinki.gr/uploads/2008_files/voulevma_symv_plimm_ath_1921-2008_parapompi_tsoumani.pdf). This combined with the fact that even after her referral to trial as well as the Judicial Council’s finding that additional serious charges should be raised against her, she has remained in office makes clear that the defamatory attack against GHM and the misleading of the UN in Greece’s reports reflect official government attitude; hence Ms. Tsoumani is using her government position to weigh on the court, in a way that could jeopardize the court’s objective impartiality.

    So, Oath Taken, charges that GHM defames Greece are made by the likes of Plevris and the likes of government officials, who some judges think are those who defame Greece instead (On 1 October 2008 Plevris is to stand trial for aggravated defamation and false accusation of GHM’s Andrea Gilbert and me). Since you are anonymous I can only say without the support of any judge that you are defaming us instead here.

    Finally, nowhere in our texts do we argue that charges have been pressed but that there is a preliminary investigation or a case against me for the violation of article 138, which indeed concerns treason against the state. High treason is a translation inaccuracy from English into Macedonian and back into English. Yet the investigation does not take place before Plevris Sr. decided so but because a prosecutor decided so. As you know their leader Karatzaferis filed recently a complaint for high treason against Sanidas and Hatzigakis recently (in the Pavlidis alleged corruption case). Do you think it will lead to an investigation like my case? :)

  51. Nemesist
    September 29, 2008    

    It is of course unfortunate that a country which was a staunch opponent of fascism and nazism breeds such supporters of it now. It’s just funny that they don’t even realize what you’ve become and what values you’re promoting.

    Lol, in case you forget, it was Metaxa’s Greece that fought against… Germany. Not against an “ideology”. Italians first and then the Germans, invaded our country, so people fought against them, as would/should do against ANY foreign invader. That’s it. No one fought against the later on British and American invaders though… because they didn’t come in tanks….

    It’s especially funny that you thought it was Stalin who was persecuting Gays, Roma and Jews…

    Oups yes, you re right, Stalin only persecuted Jews and Pontian GREEKS, as for Roma, i m not sure if there are any records..

    What do you think you re doing here? Asking me indirectly to denounce Hitler and nazism? LOL, you don’t get it buddy, if you want something like that from me, FIRST YOU denounce any dictators you may believe in, i chose Stalin as a dictator, what’s the matter, not enough a dictator for you?? You got to realize, that if you re a democrat, you don’t like dictators in general. It is only in Greece, that Stalinists like the KKE, claim they fight for …democracy!!! LOL

    b) The usual suspects of course did not lose the opportunity to spew their bile on the peasants called Greeks and their shithole of a Middle Eastern country. If indeed that were so their asses would not be sitting in the Panteion but would be rotting in a prison or flying out of Greece on the first available flight.. ;->

    ..or maybe flying out of a prison’s window, with a one way ticket to Paradise, to combine the aforementioned solutions! Hehe, well i guess you re talking about ‘Xenos’, the protector of western capitalist interests in the Balkans and others like him here. You ve got to understand, Mr Take an Oath, that anglosaxon monkeys like Xenos, are inherently racist, despite whatever they may claim they are. He regards Greeks as middle easterners, arabs, and whatever else, probably because we re not blond and blue eyed like the people in his country. This racism is ok by me, it will just backfire at him in due time. Remember, we re watching…

    High treason is a translation inaccuracy from English into Macedonian and back into English.

    I wonder, how much do they pay a ‘Greek Helsinki Monitorist’ like you Mr Dimitra? Must be a good salary, eh? Who pays you exactly, for what you do? If you don’t feel guilty about it, you won’t have any problems telling us, right And i bet you have your bonuses too, you know, the slavic ones..

  52. September 30, 2008    

    For the record. Greek Helsinki Monitor is nowadays a volunteers only organization.

  53. Xenos
    September 30, 2008    

    Also for the record: the definition of racism does not include pointing out that a culture of corruption and oppression of ethnic minorities is inconsistent with modern European values (and very consistent with those of the Middle East). The colour of one’s hair or eyes is not relevant in the slightest.

    You need to get your ideas sorted out, Nemesist, before you start using words whose underlying concepts you have not properly understood. Furthermore, it is not normal practice to call people of any ethnicity, nationality or citizenship “monkeys”: I would certainly not use this offensive term for Greeks, however irritated I might get about their lack of civilised behaviour.

  54. Nemesist
    October 3, 2008    

    For the record. Greek Helsinki Monitor is nowadays a volunteers only organization.

    Great. Now you really gained some points of admiration from me. So how do you pay for this survival of your earthly body? It must be pretty hard living off just the slavic bonuses?

    Also for the record: the definition of racism does not include pointing out that a culture of corruption and oppression of ethnic minorities is inconsistent with modern European values (and very consistent with those of the Middle East). The colour of one’s hair or eyes is not relevant in the slightest.

    Come on now, you sneaky tourist, we all saw how you feel about Greeks. These worthless peasants. What is wrong with peasants, my little tourist? Don’t like them too much i suppose? Well, it’s not the world’s peasantry that has nearly destroyed earth and its living creatures, is it?

    So, once again you state your racist views, that Middle Eastern cultures, are inherently corrupted and oppressing. We already knew you feel that way, ok. Naturally, we can only conclude that you believe people of the Middle East are racially inferior, with a corrupted nature and oppressing in their character. That is why you justify their slaughter by the western capitalist “values” you stand for. Alright, we knew these are your views already. And we also know how much you think Greeks look and act like those lesser beings, Middle Easterners. Need i remind you, that when ice covered all of your misty country, ice without any life present, the Middle East and the Meditteranean had flourishing civilizations going on for thousands of years? The thought of this truth must be hurting you a little deep inside, right tourist?

    You need to get your ideas sorted out, Nemesist, before you start using words whose underlying concepts you have not properly understood. Furthermore, it is not normal practice to call people of any ethnicity, nationality or citizenship “monkeys”: I would certainly not use this offensive term for Greeks, however irritated I might get about their lack of civilised behaviour.

    It is not normal practice? But it is the truth. You would certainly not use this offensive term for Greeks, i feel you, because of course you have no grounds to base it on. Me on the contrary, i can joyously and truthfully state that YOUR ancestors were evolved enough to be hanging from tree branches, at the same time that MINE were designing and building the Parthenon…. you get it now northern chimpo?

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