The only thing necessary for the persistence of evil is for enough good people to do nothing

Gay Marriage Blocked

Recently, the mayor of the Greek island of Tilos Tassos Alfieris, agreed to conduct a marriage ceremony for two men. The couple then posted the wedding announcement in a Greek newspaper. Now Greece’s top public prosecutor Giorgos Sanidas, is attempting to stop it going ahead.

Back in March, a gay and lesbian group (can we still say lesbian ?) discovered a loophole in the current civil union law that does not specify gender. This was to be the first marriage to test it. Gay and Lesbian rights groups are already angry about their exclusion from a new civil union law aimed to increase rights for unmarried couples.

I cannot for the life of me understand why anyone is bothered if two men or two women wish to get married. The decision to get married is a private decision between two people isn’t it ? Does it really affect anyone else’s life ? No, it doesn’t. Love and commitment is not the property of heterosexuals.

I wholeheartedly support the right of gay and lesbian couples to get married if they want to. I would love to be present at this landmark ceremony in Greece if it takes place. Here’s hoping for an invitation !

Mel writes briefly about this latest nonsense.

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  1. The Greek with No Name
    June 2, 2008    

    Let’s think and talk about this seriously.

    The decision to do anything between two persons is not neccassarily an exclusively private decision. All individual choices we make are made to some degree within the context of broader society. We have rights but we also have obligations. Although there has been an increasing distribution of rights from society to the individual; there remains societal concerns and expectations. If the expectations of broader society are that homosexual marriage endangers the sanctity of heterosexual marriage or other mores or for other reasons relating to a “slippery slope theory” then the concerns of broader society have to be take into consideration. If their concerns are strong enough to refrain from sanctioning homosexual marriage then I am afraid the small minority has to cede ground.

    Of course, this does not mean that homosexuals cannot feel love and committment to their partner. That is a separate issue and for the benefit of intellectual hygiene let’s not get confused.

  2. Xenos
    June 2, 2008    

    This is typical of Greek lawyers and judges. They never do anything to uphold the law and seriously stamp out corruption, or the violence in the universities, or the disgusting standard of Greek driving etc. No, instead they use the law to impose their personal, usually Greek Orthodox, beliefs on everyone else. What a country this is…

  3. June 2, 2008    

    “intellectual hygiene”

    What on earth does that mean?

  4. linktothepast
    June 3, 2008    

    Greek with no name, while we don’t share the same thoughts, beliefs, etc. with someone else, that doesn’t mean we should oblige them to. There are also many more right handed people than left handed, should we convert them all to being right handed because they are the minority? Or should everyone vote for the two big parties in the greek parliament and not the other smaller parties just because they are the minority also? Democracy comes with the freedom of choise as a basic element, and freedom of choise cannot be overrun by the ruling of the many to the few, as both are equally important elements and can’t contradict each other (since if there is no freedom of choise you can’t know whether the many are the ones that truly rule and not the few 😉 ).

    As for homosexuality being considered unethical by the orthodox church, everyone knows how hypocritical this is taking into account the considerable amount of homosexuals in it’s rank. And those people i don’t think that they asked for the churches blessings, but for a typical political wedding to establish some legal rights with their relationship (economical, etc.). And since it doesn’t consern the church, or me and you i don’t see where is the problem. If you want to pass your ethical values (although the problem is not ethical for homosexuals, it is obviously to you) to others, consider the fact others trying of passing their own “ethical values” to you by force. Example – Let’s say the world is filled with gays tommorow and they tell you since you are the minority you should take it from b****.

    Closing your way of thinking is that of a barbarian my friend and not of a Greek. Quoting Alexander the Great: To me any good barbarian is Greek, and any bad Greek is worse than a barbarian. And btw i am an 100% Greek orthodox in case you start wondering whether i am a foreigner or something since i don’t abide with your way of view 😉 .

  5. The Greek with No Name
    June 3, 2008    

    linktothepast, no one has suggested compelling the minority to become like the majority. I am not sure you fully understand democracy. The minority is qualitatively equal to the majority but in regards to government the minority has to accept the rulings of the majority. Otherwise, we cease to have democracy and we have something more akin to oligarchy, tyranny or any form of government where the majority is subservient to a minority (by the way I am left handed).

    With sincerest apologies your second paragraph is a mess. Again, no one has suggested compelling homosexuals to become like heterosexuals.

    Finally, in regards to your last paragraph. Please do not refer to Hellenic history when clearly your training is lacking. Alexander the Great was not the sole arbiter of what it meant to be a Hellene despite what some people today like to believe (just to be clear he would not have used Greek but Hellene). There were many conflicting views of what was considered Hellenic. We have the relatively expansive conception put forward by Isocrates which is regularly quoted by liberal-progressives these days. However, we also have relatively strict conceptions put forward by Aristotle or Philostratos or Appollonios of Tyana which people conveniently like to forget because it deligitimises their globalist project. We also have vastly different views of homosexuality. From the relative lax attitude of Theognis to the relative negative stance of Aeschines, Aristotle, Xenophon and later Plato. Just as it is almost impossible to make generalised statements about Americans today it is also difficult to generalise about Greeks.

    Before I finish, and because you brought up ancient Hellas, homosexuals or more accurately kinadoi often did not have the same legal rights in respect to being citizens in the typical Greek polis compared to others. I say often because there were over 1000 constitutions in classical times. They were also often ridiculed in the arts and popular culture. Of course, and like in most societies, there was a small elite which practiced what we today may call homosexaulity. I hope this does not offend you. Simply stating the histiographical evidence. Personally, I have no axe to grind. Please do not reference Foucalt because his value as a historian has been thoroughly discredited by the Academy. Beyond the classical polis our laws today stem from the Justinian code which was concieved during the beginning of what we commonly call the Byzantine Empire. Under that code sodomy was a capital offence. Again, this is a value neutral stating of facts. Please do not interpret this as my position. However, what I am doing is that if you are going to recall the Greeks to make a point please make sure you really know them and not the Greeks portayed in cheap Hollywood epics.

    Lastly, in future please refrain from personal insults. It is one of the rules of this blog.

  6. Xenos
    June 3, 2008    

    The snobbery and arrogant elitism of the last post are emblematic of what is wrong with Greeks. Let me paraphrase it, so that there is no misunderstanding:

    Greek with no name says:
    I have a superior intellectual training and a very high opinion of myself. I support the hypocrisy and conservatism of the Orthodox Church and of so many other Greeks, and I oppose same-sex marriage. Anyone who disagrees with my opinion I will attempt to belittle, and engage in false “philosophical” arguments, to make sure that my opinions prevail.

    I repeat from my earlier post: What a country this is!

  7. FiloXenos
    June 3, 2008    

    DD Xenos and the rest of anti-Hellenic moaning Anglo-Saxon expatriate contingent!

    Somehow, someway by the front or the back door! Greece has made history again! Either I agree with gay wedding or not the Greeks at least at local government level has done something that your home countries never dare doing my expat Brits!
    So where this leaves all your anti-Hellenic bickering and peasant accusations???

    With eggs on your face I suppose!


    I am loving it!!!!!!!


    Xenos are you accusing us of snobbery and arrogant elitism???? Wowwwwwww!!!!

    The tables have truly turned!!


  8. Filoxenos
    June 3, 2008    

    Delete the comments DD!!
    Show how ‘true’ lovers of free speach you really are!!!!
    Show in practice how truely you can tolerate alternative opinions!

  9. Xenos
    June 3, 2008    

    FiloXenos: I don’t know what you are talking about. For some time, the UK has had civil partnerships, which are similar to a civil marriage in legal terms. Other countries such as Sweden and Holland have gone further and called them marriage, it is true.

  10. June 3, 2008    

    “Delete the comments DD!!”

    Which comments are you talking about, Filoxenos ? If you are referring to your own comments not appearing until now, well… you know the rules. First time comments are ALWAYS held in moderation. And now they are here.

    There is nothing anti-hellenic in my post and I love the fact that this couple have defied the “big noises” in this country and gone ahead with this marriage.

    No egg on my face, just a great big smile.

  11. linktothepast
    June 3, 2008    

    Greek with no name i am not a homosexual and neither i support their ways. I just don’t give a damn about something that does not concern me or my family or even my religion if you want me to put it that way, because these people act outside orthodox religion and they have every right to do so. Problem is you see gay marriage as an advertisement of such behaviour, while i see it as giving them some basically rights for their relationship. Since marriage is kind of a trademark of making a family, i say give them some kind of legal rights for their relationship outside marriage, but greek state denies even that for the moment so there you have a problem.

    I too laugh with gay jokes every day, and i wouldn’t want a homosexual in my family, when i consider the problems they would have to face in their life. But saying that these people should have lower rights than the rest of us is complete hypocrisy of people that are truly afraid of homosexuals, or even from people that afraid revealing they are homosexuals themselves (homophobia). And church is full of homophobics for obvious reasons ;-). Someone who is straight and doesn’t have questions about his sexuality i don’t think has any reasons to be afraid of a gay or a lesbian “corrupting” him/her or something.

  12. zardoz
    June 3, 2008    

    gotta hand it the mayor , though
    .took some cahoonas , for local goverment
    to make a decision and practrice it.!
    .wish central goverment was just as good………xmmm wishful thinking.

  13. The Greek with No Name
    June 4, 2008    

    Xenos (or Martin) interesting interpretation. Obviously, you have no interest in dealing with the question at hand but rather like to engange in straw man arguments or conspiracy theories.