The only thing necessary for the persistence of evil is for enough good people to do nothing

Mosque Attacked

Via Abravanel

A while back, I wrote an angry post about the racist attacks against the Pakistani community in Rendi.

Right now I am so angry that people are still denying racism in Greece. Why aren’t more people outraged that this is going on ? How long are we going to ignore this hatred ? How many people have to be killed or injured before we take this seriously ?

So here we go again.

Last week, a mosque in Rendi was attacked by a group of people who beat several people with sticks. They also threw rocks at the building and threatened the community, telling them to “get out of Greece”. Again, I am reminded that no-one seems interested in protecting the Pakistani community there, even though I am sure that this gang must be known to locals and to the police. And the police are doing nothing. Again. I am lost for words.

Please read Abravanel’s article here. There are some links to other blogs and a newspaper article covering this latest attack (in Greek)

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  1. May 23, 2008    

    These attacks were not the first of their kind and certainly will not be the last. They are no different from the ones in Germany or other places; what does differ is the indifference with which they are dealt with by the Greek Police and more importantly, by the political authorities.

    abravanels last blog post..All quiet on Rendi (except for some Pakistani)

  2. Northerner
    May 23, 2008    

    It’s about time we start imposing the law in this country.

    It’s obvious that the pakistani in Rendi have been targeted by far-right mobs and unless the police looks into the situation and takes the appropriate measures a lot worse things will happen sooner or later.So, we better act now.

  3. May 24, 2008    

    Northener: ‘the law in this country’, huh? Ok, lemme break this down for a moment: When pakistani immigrants get abducted by the greek intelligence and are interrogated–tortured–by their thugs with a british agent present (he was ‘an advisor’, of course, they’re always ‘advisors’), it’s their fault: they’re ‘abducting eachother’ cuz it’s their ‘national sport’ (re: Polidoras). When a bunch of cops get caught on tape kicking the shit out of a Cypriot student it’s his fault too, cuz he crash-landed on a bike and a fucking jardiniere–remember? Besides, the greek authorities are arresting people because they dare to wear green sneakers. And let’s not forget how ‘we’ are assisting the Company with its extraordinary rendition business. So, excuse me if I tend to think that the greek police ‘imposing the law’, would actually mean attacking the Pakistanis along with the fascists.

    ? ????? ??? ??????? | St3pp3nw0lfs last blog post..???????????.

  4. The Greek with No Name
    May 26, 2008    

    Steppenwolf, calm down. Its reactions like yours that makes young Greek people think we are on the verge of a revolution. The Greek people are tired of this sort of undergraduate hyperbole inspired by political non-entities such as Che Guevara.

    Do your sympathies extend to ordinary Greek citizens and their private property when regularly damaged by unemployed hoodlums?

  5. George
    May 26, 2008    

    Greek with no name: What are these “ordinary Greek citizens” doing when their property is damaged? Have they called the police to complain? What action was taken by the police?

    In some cities in the USA, they immediately repaint over graffiti and do it consistently. Maybe instead of blowing so much money on personal comforts, the Greeks could donate money on these types of issues in their local community.

    Social conscience is something Greeks just don’t have. Sure, they hoop and holler about Albanians and other immigrants, but when their own people are the perpetrators, they just look the other way.

    Act now!

  6. danilena
    May 26, 2008    

    george, I think the greek with no name is referring to damage done by masked “anarchists” during protests. the police are certainly there, watching idly most of the time.
    see, the way the police and the state has found to turn popular opinion against demonstrations is to let 5 or 10 people destroy property and bring havoc.
    there are shop owners in certain “sensitive” areas like around polytechneio who have their business burnt down regularly every 2 or 3 years.
    I cannot believe that the riot police in all its incompetence cannot stop this phenomenon. they are letting it happen on purpose if not orchestrating it (remember their “coalition” with chrisi augi ?)

    I am not a conspiracy theorist. I’ve seen such behaviour with my own eyes in demonstrations.

  7. May 26, 2008    

    GNN, George & Danilena: I happen to have on my hard disc pictures of some of the so-called ‘anarchists’ hugging with cops–it was one of these nights. Earlier I overheard them calling each other with their first names. So, excuse me if I tend to think that half the troubles in the center of Athens are the work of agents provocateurs. ‘Hyperbole’? Gimme a break.

    ? ????? ??? ??????? | St3pp3nw0lfs last blog post..???????????.

  8. danilena
    May 26, 2008    

    steppenwolf, my point exactly.
    and going back to the original post by dd, it is no surprise that cops fail to protect immgrants. only in this case it is not failure in the sense of negligence, it is willingly turning a blind eye.

    a few weeks ago sir ian blair gave a talk in greece.

    I am sorry to post this in greek, but I can’t find an english version,dt=15.05.2008,id=43123208

    here are some of the most surreal things he said in front of an audience of greek cops (surreal because of the audience itself)

    “members of the BNP and their close relatives cannot serve in the police”

    ( imagine the greek police force minus chrisi augi members !)

    “minority groups are represented within police ranks and you are more likely to be hired as a policeman if you speak a minority language”

    (albanian policemen in greece…will I live to see the day ?)

    questionings are videotaped to ensure the suspect’s human rights are safeguarded

    (well, greek police videotape questionings too… only to brag and laugh about the human rights abuses they are so proud of !)

  9. Northerner
    May 26, 2008    

    It’s not the first time i’ve heard conspiracy theories about cops and anarchists.For some reason though, certain people are willing to provide those anarchists(with or without quotes), that are supposedly undercover police officers, secret agents or whatever, political protection.I believe these conspiracy theories are getting pretty old by now.

    Why nothing happens during marches organised by the Communist Party(KKE)?Because they’ve made it pretty clear that anyone who wants to cause trouble is not welcome and if they dare go anywhere them, they won’t only provide them no protection from the police, but they’ll deal with them personally.

    There really is no excuse for those who tolerate the looting of public property and the citizens’ property and provide a safe haven for the vandals.The fact that KKE never had such problems during any of it’s marches proves that if you want to protect the public property and people’s property you can.If you don’t, you come up with excuses and conspiracy theories.

    See, George.Noone in Greece really wants to see the law enforced.Just when it suits them.

  10. May 26, 2008    

    Northerner: yeah, well, I was not talking about ‘stories’ or ‘theories’–just my own experience. Oh, and by the way, I’ve worked with KKE’s newspaper for a dozen years. Remember that old cliché about how you never know who you’re talking to on the internet?

    ? ????? ??? ??????? | St3pp3nw0lfs last blog post..???????????.

  11. The Greek with No Name
    May 27, 2008    

    KKE!! Now there is a responsible bunch of people!!

    The importance of the law in a nation is that ALL citizens and non-citizens in that country abide and uphold the law. That includes allowing universities to hold elections free of intimidation, allowing people to protest peacefully regardless of their political ideology, and allowing people to retain the use and ownership of their private property. The law is not meant to be a tool for certain interest groups such as anarchists, rogue police force elements, NGOs, nightclub bosses, immigrant criminal gangs to gain leverage over others.

  12. Post Disagreement
    October 28, 2008    

    Its deplorable that peoples places of worship are attacked, yet I notice that attacks on Christians and Christian religious houses in Muslim countries draws next to NO outrage by the local populations in Pakistan and Egypt.
    Perhaps people are aware of how Christians or non-Muslims in general are treated in majority muslim countries and simply think what goes around comes around. Do we really want all these people coming here and taking over.

    There is this large piece of real estate to the east of Greece where Greeks became a minority in and were eventually kicked out and or killed by Greeks I find being aware of that fact are not agreeable to mass immigration period and much less from Muslim countries.

    This is an understandable concern…to prevent becoming a minority in your own house. Folks we are below replacement population and the migrant tide has not stopped and they are more fertile…this fear of becoming a minority in our own country is valid…..HOWEVER, attacking individuals or houses of worship..using physical violence is unacceptable.

    Although because none of the political parties are addressing these issues related to assimilation and the need to reduce illegal immigration. The issue of tensions between ethnic Greeks and newcomers will just explode in to spasmodic acts of violence.

    Political correctness and lack of open discussion on common people’s legitimate concerns by silencing any discussion of reducing immigration and repatriating illegals back to their homelands humanely fuels the frustration of sometimes excessive responses to the issue of immigration.

  13. Post Disagreement
    October 28, 2008    

    You know your website in general is a complete rant about anything and everything that you find wrong with Greece. and Greeks…
    do you have anything nice or good to say….

    You are very bold as a British Jewish Lesbian to come here and critique constantly your host country…go back to England and critique your house..take the plank out of Englands eye first or Israels for that matter.

    If we are so evil and the only thing you see fit to report is how uncaring or evil Greece is you can always leave.

    Did God speak to you on the mountain and give you a mission to come and wake the Greeks to stop being “haters” start embracing mass immigration and their eventual being swept away by more fertile newcomers.

    Sorry while I deplore the violence these people have a huge piece of real estate called Pakistan to call home…and they should learn about birth control and instead of going to the Mosque they should go to a library or school and read….and you will say they do not have those opportunities…whose fault is that but their corrupt leaders and fanatical anti-modern religious leaders.

    Anti-Islamism is Condemned in Europe but the converse anti-christianism or anti-judaism is not criticised.. there were many jewish communities in the Arab world that are now gone forced to go to Israel because of persecution.
    Look at our next door neighbor Turkey…once was 30% Christian now its something like 0.03%

    Yes I have sympathy for the individuals and their property being disrespected but it would be nice to see a hint of that from the other side (meaning by Muslims towards non-muslims in majority muslim countries).

  14. Post Disagreement
    October 28, 2008    

    I guess you have this idea that all minorities should stick together…well guess what they do to Lesbians and Gays in Muslims Countries…google Iran Gays.
    So if you want Greece to be taken over by Muslims what do you think that will mean for your community if God forbid that happens?

  15. October 28, 2008    

    You are very bold as a British Jewish Lesbian to come here and critique constantly your host country…go back to England and critique your house..take the plank out of Englands eye first or Israels for that matter.

    Oh dear. Apart from the fact that you are wrong about who I am, you’re go back to your own country rant is rather tired don’t you think ?

    I am not going to answer your anti-Muslim rant except to say that it really says a lot more about you that it does about Muslims.

  16. Post Disagreement
    October 28, 2008    

    I asked a legit question, if we are so inconsolably evil then why do you deen to bless us with your presence????????

    And since you are on this mission to makes us better people…What does my anit-Muslim rant say about me??????

    I realize that there are decent Muslims but as a group or a society they are very different from Western Countries thats an observation.

    It does not mean they are not human deserving of rights etc. But why force people together who do not want to be together….The Muslims come here for work not because they want diversity and to learn Greek language and culture….they do not go to the Netherlands for the weather…or for more freedom…but for money thats 95% of the cases.

    They are extremely conservative when it comes to how women should dress and behave and are the least tolerant societies on earth towards GLBTs.

    So what did I say that is not true or unkind?

    Again you will say not all Muslims are this way…but the point is that enough are that makes them incompatible to a western setting in terms of assimilation in large masses especially where they will not blend in with the natives but form ghettos of their on creating enclaves of underpaid illegals who will not like their host because they are being exploited by greedy business interests and to top it off this kind of environment creates opportunity for radical islamism.

    Even Ultra Liberal Netherlands acknowledges this problem. Remember Hirsi Ali…i think that was her name. She was in a video that criticized Islam ( as an exMulsim Dutch Somali) she faced death threats.

    In Muslims Countries its ILLEGAL to convert to another religion.
    Name me one European/Christian dominated country where its ILLEGAL to convert from Christianity to anything else????????

    Now not all Muslims are responsible for that behavior but the cultural attitudes towards freedom of religion, speech, inquiry, womens rights etc.. is totally some where else which is why there were very few Muslims if any that spoke out against the extremist elements in their religion.

    The Silence is deafening as they say…when it comes to Islam and self-critique…and when its not…whoever has the courage to say something usually winds up dead or with a dath warrant on them.

    So again while I disagree with blanket racism or any kind of supremacism that does NOT mean we should close our eyes and lie to ourselves and say well if we all just hold hands and sing coumbia everything will go smoothly.

    Muslims have huge pieces of real estate on God’s earth they can and do call home and in almost every case freedom of religion to NON-Muslims exists in the form of second class citizenship..(Copts of Egypts) and is non-existent for Muslims who wish to change affiliation.

    So, why can’t we have a small corner called home..a country is like a house…and house divided against itself will not stand.

    I think Greece should welcome legitimate asylum seekers and economic migrants on an as needed basis…not on the desires of businesses that want to suppress wages. And its always preferable when there are common cultural references for the sake of peace and assimilation.

  17. Post Disagreement
    October 28, 2008    

    I think whomever was behind the “Right to Migration” did not ask the natives what they thought about such a right (if you mean it applies to non-politcal refugess non-asylum seekers)….instead the EU being a huge bueracracy controlled by Banking and Corporate interests imposed it. Its not in the Greek Constitution.

    I think illegal immigrants have the right to be treated humanely but not the right to stay just because they got here.

  18. Post Disagreement
    October 28, 2008    

    Oh dear. Apart from the fact that you are wrong about who I am, you’re go back to your own country rant is rather tired don’t you think ?

    My apologies…but I should have put it this way…………. if we are so inconsolably evil all you can report is the bad news items then why do you want to stay here?

    In the local news some teenager posted a racist flier in the international news Iran stones Gays and Adulterers and converts to Christianity are jailed and raped in neighboring Turkey a Christian convert from Islam is murdered in gruesome manner having his genital sliced off ….

    But oh my one person or a few quacks put a racist flier out all Greeks are now racist haters and plotting the next genocide ….lets call out the UN and the Thought police…the apocalypse is just around the corner.

    I realize words and propaganda can cause evil actions but RIGHT now today there are much more evil actions being done elsewhere. Its like your putting Greece on the same level as Iran or Pakistan in terms of human rights.

    And as far as misgivings by Greeks about the amount and type of immigration you display a historical ignorance of Greek history and oppression of Greeks by Muslims including genocide….i.e. its a little understandable i think for Greeks to not want all this immigration considering what i mentioned before/selsewhere…the expulsion and genocide of the Greek communities in what became a Muslim dominated society.

    Radical Imams in the Netherlands even now while they are a small minority..
    boldly talk of imposing Sharia. So whats going to happen if they become a majority…

    You are kidding yourself if you think that they are going to become “liberal westernized” in their outlook. In Turkey Secularism only took hold by force and after many generations and they still have problems with Muslim fanaticism.

  19. Post Disagreement
    October 28, 2008    

    In this case these are physical attacks. Which are deplorable and condemnable and making Western societies turn into a mirror image of what we object to in Islamic dominated societies today.

    I think many western people are aware that their is close to NO objection or defense of Non-Muslim minorities in Pakistan by their Muslim neighbor when incidents like this happen there. So perhaps that while not an excuse may be a reason.

    Again that does not mitigate the need for Greeks to object to this behavior but I wish their was a DeviousDiva and Abravanel in Pakistan critiquing those societies.

    The fact is there are Greeks who speak out against mistreating immigrants, just because the local police is corrupt does not mean everyone is.
    I did see a news report about the living conditions of Pakistani workers being exploited in the agribusiness. So there are reporters and people of good will who do report their plight.

  20. Post Disagreement
    October 28, 2008    

    On the other hand do not take everything I said to mean that I think Greeks and Greece are perfect. There are fanatics and extremist in every nation to varying degrees. I think there is racism in Greece but I will qualify that it is not at the kind of level seen elsewhere in Europe and certainly not comparable to the level and frequency of abuse non-muslims endure in many of the homelands of these immigrants. Look at the resurgent of nazi sympathizing parties in Austria and Germany.

    While not excusing the violence against these people that took place in Greece I think its only fair to point out that at least Muslims can have mosques in Greece.. Can you open a Christian church in Pakistan or Saudi Arabia?
    In some of those countries Women can not even divorce their husband or have any hope of keeping their children if the husband divorces them.

    I think westernized liberally minded people should not be welcoming mass muslim migration into Europe. But this (violence) is not the way to deal with it either.

  21. Xenos
    October 28, 2008    

    There are DDs and Abravanels in most countries of the world, although most do not write in English. There are also many Post Disagreements in every country of the world, who insist on educated decent people not having the right to criticise their country.

    Your posts are full of personal attacks on DD, racial intolerance, and defence of indefensible Greek problems on the grounds that in some other countries, problems are worse. OK, go to those other countries and fight for justice there instead of complaining that anyone dares to criticise Greece. While you remain in Greece, you will hear predominantly discussions about Greece. What else did you expect?

  22. Post Disagreement
    October 29, 2008    

    Racial intolerance because why, I do not think greece should be flooded by mass migration and should hold to more sensible immigration policies.

  23. Post Disagreement
    October 29, 2008    

    I see that I should not expect anything but criticism of Greece and Greeks.

    Why would you Xenos want to live and stay in a country with so many hate filled people? Obviously Greece is better for you then somewhere else.

    Criticism is okay but thats all you seem to do, and you are derogatory to Greeks in other blogs too unless there is another Xenos blogging on the extreme left websites.